Railroaders' Nostalgia > Early start: Living the dream - who?

Here http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?18,3445237 RDB describes his 50 years of service and 60 years of experience living the dream. "As with many (or maybe most) of us here it was certainly not my first day spent on railroad property."

For me, it's been 47 years of service (including railroad consulting for a couple of decades) and about 55 years of experience. It started in the Santa Fe station in Willow Springs IL, then the yard office at GM Yard (Hodgkins-where UPS is now) and the Santa Fe station at McCook, and finally moved on to the B&OCT tower at McCook. Yeah, none of us were supposed to be hanging out in such places let alone running the job to some degree or another, but some of us did. At Willow Springs in 1963, a freind and I were there while Superintendent RJ Yost (the control point in IL is named after him) and his staff were there to deal with No 19 running through a freight train heading in to GM Yard at MP 15.5. The reaction was not get out of here, it was advice on how to pursue a railroad career in operation. At McCook, my friend the operator (WR) had me running the place on my own by the time I was a senior in high school. He was in the process of learning the basics for starting in the dispatchers office and I got to learn too. Yup, we're not supposed to be there, but the day after high school graduation, I reported to the Chief Dispatcher (JFJ), who knew all about me and what I had been doing for years. He sent me to the doctor for breathe in breathe out yup you're good to go. I worked third trick McCook that night, the day ofter high school graduation.

After hiring out, my career path differed from RDB's. I didn't finish college and didn't stay with one railroad. I had the opportunity to be an apprentice train dispatcher or continue in school. I chose apprentice train dispatcher and never looked back (even when BN told me that I was not promotable...while I was on special assignment to service design, passenger services, capital planing, training, and IT). Since a train dispatcher (at least on some railroads, B&OCT included) was expected to have comprehensive knowledge of railroading, I got to learn about track, signals, switching, running a locomotive, yard management, contracts, and so on. I felt like it was great that I got to do it but actually, it was expected. I studied the rest of what would have gone into a degree on my own over the years, hence writing books and academic papers, writing software, designing databases and user interfaces and so on have been part of living the dream. I also didn't stay with one railroad because there was always something more to learn. Running B&OCT is not like running SP between Sacramento and LA, which is not like working on the MILW as an opr/clerk/switchman/gandy/carman as needed from hour to hour during the work day), which is not like running BN in the Cascades and eastern Washington, which is not like running BN in the Rockies and central Montana. Being 'not promotable,' I promoted myself to consultant and have worked in the US, Canada, Mexico, and South Africa designing railroad, designing service, and fixing operation - a lot of things I would never have had the opportunity to do had I stayed with BN[SF].

I've worked with several rails who started that way, whether it was in the family, friends of the family, or just friendly rails. They were all very good at railroading. Nowadays, such opportunities don't exist. Training is also not what it used to be back when rails were basically apprentices from the start instead of going to school for a few months to learn it all. I think that the lack of encouragement, or rather complete prohibition of participatory interest (or from what I hear, any interest at all) and the condensed training between street and expert show in modern railroading.

The Soviet Union was always aware of the importance of railroads. They had (and as separate countries still have) a very comprehensive and extensive railroad education program including dedicated railroad universities. They also knew the concept of encouraging interest and starting learning about railroading at an early age. There were dozens of Children's Railways http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_railway on which teenagers (and maybe younger) could start a railroad career. From there, they could go to railroad trade school or railroad technical college or university then go to work as an experienced and very well trained railroad employee.

I'm curious. How many here started railroading before hiring out, regularly learning/doing railroad work as a teenager?

TAW

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TAW wrote:
I'm curious. How many here started railroading before hiring out, regularly learning/doing railroad work as a teenager?

Somehow, railroads always were of interest to me.

When I was 22 months old, in 1945, I went AWOL from my backyard in Rochester, MN. My mother recorded that I was found several hours later, four blocks from home, in a railroad yard, watching trains!

We moved to South Minneapolis soon thereafter, and I remember being in my crib at night and listening to a steam engine doing, what I later learned, kicking cars. I can still hear it - the accelerating steamer, just as if it had been this morning.

Another early memory, probably about 3-4 Y.O., being shown steam engines in service on the GN in Willmar, MN.

My Dad's oldest brother was a Milwaukee engineer at Harlowton, MT. I was probably about 6 when we visited his brother in Harlow, and he took us on a personally guided tour of the roundhouse. I can still see the curved interior of the roundhouse, and workmen welding on engines to my right.

In high school, I was fortunate that my next door neighbor was night CTC operator at South Minne on the MILW. He had only daughters, and semi-adopted me, taking me to work with him, teaching me a bit (not enough) about CTC, telegraphy, Train Orders, and arranging cab rides on local switch jobs. Being taken out into a working yard, "Garden", for the first time by old "Jimmy", and told as Baldwin S-12 No. 925 shoved a cut past us, "Get on">

"But,", I said, "it ain't stopped yet."

"And," Jimmy replied, "It ain't gonna. Get on!"

At this time, I saw a newspaper article that a group of local railfans were starting up an organization to restore a Minneapolis/St. Paul street car. I joined up with the group, which became the Minnesota Transportation Museum.

During my college years, I took employment with the CB&Q and Omaha railroads to pay expenses. This taught me a lot about railroading, but also showed me that, as much as I liked railroads, I didn't want the railroaders lifestyle for a lifetime. I managed to carve out a niche for myself, well employed in a manufacturing business, but able to participate and contribute to tourist railways. I headed up the creation of two such operations, and at age 70, professionally retired, still actively volunteer weekly.

It's been a hell of a trip!

-John Stein aka LarryDoyle

I started at the local railway museum, went to work with Amtrak and the trolley, decided that I would rather railroad as a hobby, went back to school for my engineering degree, and now volunteer at the same railway museum back to where it all started. Just requalified as an Engineer - my 38th year!

I hung out at the local interlocking tower, Owen on the NYC, Robinson on the IC, in Robinson, Illinois. The second trick operator liked to leave early to stop at the Moose for a couple on the way home; I covered for him. Whilst a senior in high school, we went on a field trip to the University of Illinois in Champaign, but I drove myself so that I could go to the Chief Dispatcher's office for the IC and apply for a job. The chief had me copy a train order, repeat it, and asked me what it meant. He told me to go hang out with the agent at Oblong, Illinois which I did and he taught me a little about agency work. After graduation, I went to Champaign to the chief's office and was hired and told to post at Palestine, Illinois, the IC crew change point between Indianapolis and Effingham. I posted a couple of nights, and then worked third trick there for a few nights. Thence on to many other locations that summer and the next, 1958 and 1959. The IC had a serious interest in hiring HS grads who had hung out, especially in Kinmundy, IL for summer vacation work. In November 1959 I went to work for the NYC in Terre Haute, IN, where I was going to school, until I graduated in 1963.

Started hanging out around ALCOA yard on Santa Fe's Harbor District in grade school early sixties. Crew started letting me ride in caboose, then started "bleeding off" set outs for them to speed up switching and handled switches during switching. Soon was taught how to run locomotives by the local crews beginning with ALCO switchers. The crews had a practice of using two sets of locos splitting the crew in half using the conductor to run one set of power with a single brakeman doing the ground work while the engineer used another set of power with the other single brakeman, one half crew working one end of the area or heading up one of the two spurs that left the main line at ALCOA while the other half worked other industries close by. Eventually while in high school the conductor and I would take a set of power and work the two spurs with me running the engine and him doing the ground work while the engineer and both brakemen did the more complicated spotting of the larger industries adjacent the main line which greatly speeded up the night. Normally finishing up in four hours or less then spotting the caboose around some curve, shutting down the engines and sleeping the rest to get their twelve hours in. For me this was unreal running a train across public streets and having the time of my life. There were never any incidents except one bad track caused derailment covered on this forum months ago. In addition to working with the local crew I would often take the bus from Torrance to Wilmington on Saturday mornings then walk to Watson yard and ride the morning returning "Wilmington Turn" from Watson yard to San Bernardino a distance of just under one hundred miles in a boxcar or hopper or gondola returning on the afternoon turn from San Bernardino to Watson yard normally detraining in Torrance. Only once while riding a shiftable loaded car was the train stopped and the crew let me ride back to Torrance in the caboose. One time the power off the train was heading to the roundhouse in San Bernardino and passed me in the yard. I always carried a timetable in my back pocket trying to fit in. They stopped, backed up and asked if I was the guy that was riding the train every week noticing I had a timetable asked "I see you have a TT, how about a rule book and proceeded to toss me down a 1967 version which also fit nicely in my pocket. As you rails know, no way does todays rulebook, or TT fit in your pocket! It was awesome to eventually work with alot of these guys as a paid member of the crew. Definately a different world back then.
JB

This thread and all the replies reminds me of a conversation I recently
had with a now retired former BN dispatcher. He reminded us that back in
the 60's, when you wandered around a rail facility you were often invited
in and if you asked about employment, you were encouraged to apply. Contrast
that with today's attitudes, fostered in part by silly callous people in it
for themselves and not caring about anyone or anything else. Just saying.

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

ntharalson Wrote:
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> This thread and all the replies reminds me of a
> conversation I recently
> had with a now retired former BN dispatcher. He
> reminded us that back in
> the 60's, when you wandered around a rail facility
> you were often invited
> in and if you asked about employment, you were
> encouraged to apply. Contrast
> that with today's attitudes, fostered in part by
> silly callous people in it
> for themselves and not caring about anyone or
> anything else. Just saying.
>
> Nick Tharalson,
> Marion, IA

That's right! I know of an eastern railroad with those kind of people.

Actually, we aren't callous employees by choice. I would love to invite people into the cab, but the penalty for me doing so is termination. Blame our litigious society and corporate indifference, not those on the ground...
My story is much like the others-wandering as soon as I could walk, would go out into the backyard at my Grandma's house whenever the South Shore train came by (in Michigan City, IN, that happened a lot). Eventually was a volunteer at a RR museum for a time then got a lucky bounce and hired out as a brakeman for Conrail and haven't looked back!

Started watching crews switch the Ross Mill in Newton in the late 50's and early 60's. I also spent time in the signal watchmans tower. Mop agent at Newton used to let me help unloaded the Eagle Merchandise Cars, and the Mop local crew would let operate the time release at the Santa Fe Crossing. I never was able to get on the Santa Fe in train service due to partial color blindness, so worked in the store department for three summers. When I hired on the Mop in 72,I bluffed my way past the eye exam and I was what could be called a "one week wonder" I put my application on Monday, took my physical on Tues, five student trips on two locals and each shift switch engine. Trainmaster gave me a 20 min oral rule test, and made me promise I wouldn't get hurt. I kept that promise and worked 40 years without a reportable injury.

DrLoco Wrote:
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> Actually, we aren't callous employees by choice. I
> would love to invite people into the cab, but the
> penalty for me doing so is termination. Blame our
> litigious society and corporate indifference, not
> those on the ground...
> My story is much like the others-wandering as soon
> as I could walk, would go out into the backyard
> at my Grandma's house whenever the South Shore
> train came by (in Michigan City, IN, that happened
> a lot). Eventually was a volunteer at a RR museum
> for a time then got a lucky bounce and hired out
> as a brakeman for Conrail and haven't looked back!

I was referring to the higher ups not us.

espeefan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DrLoco Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Actually, we aren't callous employees by choice.
> I
> > would love to invite people into the cab, but
> the
> > penalty for me doing so is termination. Blame
> our
> > litigious society and corporate indifference,
> not
> > those on the ground...
> > My story is much like the others-wandering as
> soon
> > as I could walk, would go out into the
> backyard
> > at my Grandma's house whenever the South Shore
> > train came by (in Michigan City, IN, that
> happened
> > a lot). Eventually was a volunteer at a RR
> museum
> > for a time then got a lucky bounce and hired
> out
> > as a brakeman for Conrail and haven't looked
> back!
>
> I was referring to the higher ups not us.

And I was refering to the mentioned litiguous fans and
their discourteous acts that gave rise to the higher ups
attitudes.

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

Some of my earliest memories are of visiting my Dad and Uncle at work in towers on the Rock Island.

Later spending time in towers on the Rock and C&WI with my brothers.

Hanging out in the C&WI dispatcher's office in Dearborn St. Meeting Mr. E.P Henry the C&WI "Chief Dispatcher and Rules Examiner", and thinking to myself that was the coolest title anyone could ever have and that he must know everything about everything on his railroad. (I have subsequently held both titles, but not both at the same time or on the same railroad :( )

Walking up the stairs to the tower with Dad one summer day as the trainmaster was coming out the door of the tower.
The trainmaster jokingly asked the old man when I would be ready to go to work account he was short people. I was probably only 12 at the time.

Going downtown on the Rock with Dad in the old 1920's cars, standing just inside the car with the rear vestibule door open on a summer day, listening to the sound of the wheels roaring over the joints and frogs, fascinated by the sight of the crossovers, turnouts, diamonds and signals disappearing behind the train. Occasional cab rides on the way home (rode in the 630 once).

Dad taking me to Rock Island on the Council Bluffs train before it was discontinued, getting us a cab ride on the way back between Bureau and Joliet. The fireman took me back into the engine room to give me a tour at speed. Standing behind the engineer (Mr.Baraclough)watching the speedometer hover at 85.

One day Dad brought home an interesting document one of the B&OCT train dispatchers had put together. It was a diagram of all the trackage of the B&OCT. All kinds of exotic places like 49th St., Pine Jct., etc. It was quickly appropriated and thoroughly studied by me and even today I know right where it is in my bookcase. Turns out the author was one TAW.

Riding the GTW to Battle Creek and back with some high school friends who were big GTW fans. They had ridden enough to be familiar with the train crew ( Conductor Roy Lawrence and Brakeman Doc Ledford) who would let us ride the rear vestibule. The crew stopping the Mohawk at 95th St. to let us off so we wouldn't have to take the bus back from Elsdon (Chicago Lawn was not open for the westbound Mohawk but there were usually some deadheads for Elsdon)

I couldn't stand being in High School with a bunch of kids after being exposed to a man's world so I took extra classes and earned enough credits to get my diploma in the fall. Went to one semester of junior college and then hired on as a towerman on the Rock 3 months shy of my 18th birthday. I was working second trick the day my former classmates were graduating from high school.

Of course none of that is possible now because it is a much better, safer world. Numerous dismissible offences have been covered so far.

When I was in management, I remembered all those men who had been kind to me. One day in the late 80's I entered the fireman's door of a Metra cab car to ride home with one of the engineers I knew. I found the seat occupied by the engineer's grandson who it was explained was home from college. I excused myself with the engineer for the intrusion, and went back to find a seat in the coach.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/14 17:43 by Englewood.

Englewood Wrote:
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> One day Dad brought home an interesting document
> one of the B&OCT train dispatchers had put
> together. It was a diagram of all the trackage of
> the B&OCT. All kinds of exotic places like 49th
> St., Pine Jct., etc. It was quickly appropriated
> and thoroughly studied by me and even today I know
> right where it is in my bookcase. Turns out the
> author was one TAW.

And I know where the original is in mine...even after moving 11 times since drawing it.

TAW

I'm curious. How many here started railroading before hiring out, regularly learning/doing railroad work as a teenager?

Well, how about pre-teen?

Barely...had my first cab ride when I was 12, was riding cabooses at 14, and took my first "road trips" when I was 14 as well. By that time I was giving the local crews an assist with switches, passing signals across the cab, etc.

Handled the controls when I was 15; knew how to start a shut-down locomotive by that time. Had developed calluses from throwing switches (tall stands, levers that you rotated through 90 degrees).

Copied my first train order when I was 16.

Took a trip to the division point when I was 19, stayed overnight in the caboose, listening to Alco switchers kicking cars around the yard. Actually rode a train in the same caboose as a trainmaster and superintendent once.

Tried to hire out on this marvelous railroad at age 20; could not get hired because I wore glasses for nearsightedness (or maybe they were letting me down gently).

Gave up on a college education, hired out at 21 to a railroad that was more desperate for warm bodies...I knew what I was getting into, and I think that helped me survive.

Worked there 39 years...record was far from spotless, but I did have a certain reputation with my leanings toward perfectionism.

Retired four years ago. Railfan before, during and after the whole business. Still here.

Carl Shaver
Lombard, IL

As a young fan I watched and maybe learned a little about railroads (and about airplanes and cars) without ever considering employment on a RR.
Prior learning consisted of fan trips, three freight train "hobo" rides, and wandering trackside to watch (including a welded rail gang). I was once offered a cab ride by the Oxnard switcher for about 20 minutes too. It all seemed pretty straight-forward to me.

Parents and school counselors recommended engineering, the jobs were all in aerospace (or so it seemed).
When I met the mathematics of the complex variable "i" (square root of minus one) that ended pursuit of electrical or mechanical engineering; my brain just is not wired for higher math. So I drifted into civil engineering: water flows downhill and mu graphic mind can visualize the drawings and plans.
When it came time to find a job as a graduating senior Civil Engineer and carrying a 1-A Selective Service rating several interviewers said "look good, call us when you get back from the military".

But the SP said "Come start with us for a few months, you'll get a starting date" for an entry level job on the construction of the Palmdale-Colton Cutoff.
So now in (mostly) retirement after 21 years on the SP, 5 as a consultant, and 14 with Metrolink, I find that it is a rare privilege to have worked at a job that was actually fun (at least part of the time). I have tried to share a bit of it here on TO with the "working" and "watercolor" series and will resume posting someday.

Thank to all the other railroaders who post here, I've had the privilege of knowing some of you directly and all of you by your accomplishments. I feel part of a grand community of railroaders who had a better "living the dream" experience than most people ever get.

And those hot aerospace careers? They had far more job changes, program cuts, frustrations with government (DOD, FCC, FAA, etc.) and mostly for quickly obsolete machines or they left for management or law.

Thanks for the invitation to share this....
Mike McGinley

railstiesballast Wrote:
I have tried to share a bit of it here
> on TO with the "working" and "watercolor" series
> and will resume posting someday.
>
> Mike McGinley


I hope you start this back up, Mike. I absolutely love your water colors. In fact, as you well know,, I have an original hanging in my office.


V

SLOCOPNDR

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I was about 5 years old when I rode in the caboose for the first time. By 8 or 9 I was going to work with my dad who worked 16 hr locals. At 10 or 12 years old my dad was a conductor on the Empire Builder between Seattle and Spokane. Every 3rd Friday he would be making an eastward trip and I would race home from school change clothes and my mother would drive me to the depot in Everett and I would ride to Spokane lay over and leave Spokane on Saturday afternoon on the Western Star. By my teens dad was back on a 16 hour local that worked between Everett and Burlington WA. I was the 4th brakeman on that job. Riding hand brakes,throwing switches,spotting cars and etc. I got my seniority date as a brakeman on 12-29-62. I was 17 years 6 mos. old and still a senior in high school. I would work only on weekends till I finished high school. I was very lucky I was cut off for only one week in February 1964. I was #182 or the last guy on the GN seniority roster dated 1-1-63. When I retired Nov. 1st 2005 I was #2 out of 2200 plus on the roster. I was working as a utility switch man in Delta Yard in Everett 8 hrs a day 5 days a week as I was working toward retirement. I had been working about an hour and it was a warm day and both my knees hurt so when I came back to the yard office I sat down on the bench took off my boots and threw them and my gloves on the roof of the yard office said I QUIT and got in my car and went home. I have been back to the yard office only once in almost 9 years and that was account a good friend retired and I wanted to say goodbye. Do I miss it? I would be lying if I said NO but the way things are run today it would be NO FUN. I was 3rd generation and when I left that was the end of 95 years on the Great Northern,BN and BNSF.

Deadhead FRED
Skykomish