Railroaders' Nostalgia > Sleeping on Duty - Wouldn't Think of It

A fellow TO member had asked me some questions in a private email and thought some of you might enjoy reading some of my answers.

Yes I worked the Local 87-88 between Emporia and Ellinwood quite a bit. It was the least desirable job on the Santa Fe's Middle Division and as such that's where I was with no seniority to speak of. They only used 1 set of power for a two sided job. One couldn't leave Ellinwood until the next day's crew arrived from Emporia because they had your power! So one always had a 24 hr layover or more. The trainmen stayed on their assigned caboose but the engineer and I stayed at an old hotel. With the expense of 4 meals and lodging plus what I would loose playing cards I would come out in the hole most every trip.

I do not remember the station Oursler between Florence and Marion on the Ellinwood branch. There may have been some concrete foundation or remains of a dam but I sure don't remember it. The branch line did follow the river for a few miles out of Florence so an old time mill could have existed.

In the fall of '62 while furloughed, they called me in emergency for 87-88. I think it was 4 am on duty so they would call you around 3 am. Shortly after starting up the branch at Florence (around daylight) both the brakeman and I fell asleep. Man, the engineer tore that brakeman a new one. The brakeman's responce was "the fireman was sleeping too and you haven't said a word to him" The engineer said "the fireman didn't know he was going to work this morning but you did. You should have been rested".

I don't know how well you knew RD Bush, if at all, but sure you've heard stories about him. I only fired for him ONCE prior to getting severed. We went to Ellinwood on 12-24-62 (Christmas Eve). We found out they weren't going to operate 87 on Christmas Day so the conductor talked the dispatcher into letting us go home. One of the brakeman had a '53 Chevy station wagon out there so we piled into that and went to Emporia. Eight years later (1970) after getting back on as a fireman I ran into RD Bush at the Emporia depot. He greets me by name which dumbfounded me. I couldn't believe it. In quizzing him how in the world he remembered me he stated we had made that trip to Ellinwood together and rode home in that old Chevy. Still, how he would remember an 18 year old snot nosed kid after 8 years from working with him only one day? He explained that they had declined his deadhead claim as we really were not ordered to DH and they hadn't ever tried to get crews home for a holiday before. It took him about 3 years of fighting with them before they finally paid the claim. And every time the time ticket was brought up there was my name along with his. That's how he remembered me! Even when I was in the Army in '65 - '66 I would receive a $15 to $30 check from the ATSF from time to time over some claim that had been eventually settled. I would never know what it was for but they were always appreciated.

I had heard stories about RD Bush never allowing anyone to sleep on his job. Sometime in the '70 - '72 era I was firing for him on a train eastbound (north) out of Arkansas City. They put us into the Third District's Winfield siding to meet No. 15. This was probably around 5:45 am as No. 15 would arrive Ark City at 6:15. I'm sure it was cold outside as our windows were closed. I guess I must have dozed off for a little bit and when opening my eyes there was a Clear signal. Before I could even say anything the operator came on the radio stating the dispatcher was wanting to know why we were not taking the signal. I told him we had been checking some things but were now on the move. Guess it wasn't just me that had dozed off. It was kinda strange that none of us had heard No. 15 go by however he would have been just drifting at that location. None of us ever mentioned anything to each other about possibly having our eyes closed.

As to your question about the Galatia branch, only spent about 1 week there as an engineer on a work train, unloading ties. We couldn't pull a couple of the hills account of weeds over the rails. I turned the driver's seat over to the conductor or brakeman and went ahead of the train pulling weeds. That's the only way we could make it up those hills. It was similar to hand sanding the rails ahead of the movement which I did once while firing for Bob Foster leaving Winfield for Arkansas City account the pipe from the sand box had been smashed flat preventing any sand from coming out. This reminds me of another time when firing for Jim Hartman between Enterprise and Navarre on the Strong City branch during a heavy rain and the sand hose or bracket was bent causing the sand to miss the rail. I walked beside the locomotive for 2 or 3 miles holding out on the hose so the sand would hit the rail. You gotta do what you gotta do.

Let me know if you would like to read some more episodes.

Mark

Mark,
Write all the stories you can recall. Most rails have a few good stories to tell. One of these days I'm going to let loose with some.. Even now, as I read about things guys have written, it normally reminds me of something during my career, so like I said, one of these days.



V

SLOCONDR

Enjoyed that, because I remember all the names. RD Bush finally retired at 76 years old, moved to Bella Vista, AR, and worked part time getting up at 3:00am and throwing newspapers on a route. He was a tough old fart.

Posted from Android

KskidinTx Wrote: > Let me know if you would like to read some more episodes.

Silly question, my friend! Your tidbits from above blew a fuse in my "been there-done that" meter! So you now have a full-time job of keeping the 'RRer's Nostalgia' forum well supplied with your tales. :^) I also knew all of the afore-mentioned RR'ers, and I'm sure Dennis will agree: RD Bush by himself could generate MANY PAGES of interesting dialog!

I'll just add one delightful little observation to your description of local #87-#88 (which was long-gone before I hired out in '78). During my nine years on Santa Fe's Middle Division I heard NUMEROUS accounts about how much that job was hated. There were SO MANY of the older guys having nothing good to say about this wretched job I sorta started keeping track. Toward the end of it all I had heard about so many guys being force-assigned to that dreaded job for what seemed like eons at a time! I started adding up those supposed "eons" and quickly came to the conclusion that there were 7 DAILY sections of the job in both directions. Really! There HAD to be to account for all of the testimonials I had heard...

Does an average railroader tend to exaggerate his story just a bit now & then??? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

(well... maybe a tiny... ;^)

Lance (Middle Division class of '78 ~ '87)

Back in the 50's I was firing for Cecil Val in San Jose Local pool 6. We were on #106 the 12:30am local out of SF and Val asked me if I wanted to run. This was my first time running a passenger train and what better place than on a middle of the night local. Well, the trip was successful, but when we went on duty for the return trip after a couple of hours shut eye Val asked, "Did you stop at Palo Alto last nite?". I responded, "Yes, didn't you?". Apparently he must have been pretty relaxed when we made the Palo Alto stop.

> It was kinda strange that none of us had heard
> No. 15 go by however he would have been just
> drifting at that location.

Now THAT IS SCARY!

Uncle Joe,Seffner,Fl.

RD was married 13 times, I always thought that was interesting. Got cleaned out a few times, and came out on top a few times too.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/15 10:13 by ddg.

ddg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RD was married 13 times, I always thought that was
> interesting. Got cleaned out a few times, and came
> out on top a few times too.
>
> Posted from Android

sounds like a Seinfeld episode when Jerry claims he always breaks even and Kramer christens him "EVEN STEVEN"

my own so-called sleep experience on Amtrak ... one night working at ZOO interlocking during a inept boss induced lull a manager( we called TAIL LIGHTS <see below>) was sent out to find out why work wasn't progressing as efficiently as the daytime cubical stymied office bean counters projected ... i was laid back feet up in my converted toyota celica cumfy seat (the company seat was breaking my back) that i had behind the ops seat waiting for the 2 numbskulls dumb and dumber to make a decision ANY decision when the door opens and Tail Lights pops his head in and says hi and asks what's goin on ... i immediately replied with a hi as well and explained to him that as soon as the 2 rocket scientist out there figure it out we can get to work ... he says ok ... THAT WAS IT ... the extent of our conversation ... about a week later i receive a certified letter from Amtrak which inside was an investigation/trial notice for aaahemmmm get this ... "Assuming the position of sleep while on duty" ... it seemed Tail Lights needed a scape goat to justify HIS JOB and I WAS IT !!!...

well i figured if these A$$holes wanna fudge with me i'm not gonna give them an excuse to prove them right and fight them and dog it ... nope ... i used my non intellectual reverse psychology on them ... i said to myself " if they wanna put me out on the street for 30 days they're gonna miss my friggen a$$ ... i did everything i could to do double the work load that was given us ... i knew this was't going to be easy because i didn't work alone but the crew knew my strategy and went along with it ... well for the next month and 1 1/2 we signed up and were out the door gettin'er done ... when trial time came i was offered 10 days off 20 in abayance over my head but going to trial would result in 30 days off if i lost which was an almost guarantee altho a very slim few survived ... my union guy is beggin me to take it sayin i'm not gonna get any better ... i made a call to the wife who didn't know how the railroad kangaroo court sytem worked and she said "if you didn't do anything wrong you should fight it" ... i took her words to heart ... i told my union guy to go f@#k himself i'm fighting the charges ... he keeps to me repeating that i'm going to regret it ...

well i'm in trial and my trial officer is the Asst DE who knew my work ethic and knew i was no nonsense guy ... the trial begins and Tail Lights goes through his garbage speal trying to pin the inefficiency of our work on me ... i'm watching the ADE during this and i can tell he can see right through this WEASELS verbal bulls%#t ... with the trial 1/2 way done i present my side of the case with my dope union guy lookin on shaking his head ... in the middle of me explaining my side the ADE says " hold on for a second ... ya know i'm looking at the numbers in front of me and says i can see this incident hasn't affected your attitude any in fact the efficiency numbers show an increase since this happened" ... he asked me to explain that ... my reply was "the answer's simple ... this is all bulls%#t and i'm being made out to be the scapegoat and you all know it so i just wanted to prove my point that you're all wrong and who they need to take look at for the lack of efficiency is the person who drummed up all this crap sitting right across the table from me and i pointed to Tail Lights ... oh and i made sure you guys are gonna miss me when i'm gone after you guys put me on the street for something i didn't do" ... SILENCE ... after a few seconds of unspokeness the ADE trial officer says "ok we're going to postpone this trial until further notice" ... that was it ... i never heard another word and went back to business as usual ...

TAIL LIGHTS ... the reason we called him this is everytime this idiot orderd us to do something it NEVER worked out ... and when it didn't all we saw were the "`Tail Lights" of his company truck leaving us to figure out how to not only finish up but to fix his mess in the process ... it was ironic because when we started the rehab job on the AC Line we had met guys from the NY Division and they just happened to have the same name for this WEASEL ...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/15 13:15 by Out_Of_Service.

Three decades ago I worked the caboose with this old head SP conductor (whose name I won't mention, because bless his heart, he is still kicking) who could not stay awake for the life of him. When we climbed aboard he might be animatedly talking with me about something, but as soon as the wheels began to turn, he'd be out like a light. According to his fellow senior rails, this was a lifetime affliction. Early in his career, while decorating the top of an empty reefer block as a swing brakeman, he climbed down into an empty bunker for some shuteye. The train developed a hot box near his resting place, and eventually the journal burned off with the obvious consequences. Later in his career, he was alone (and asleep) on his caboose for some reason as it rolled into town past the yard office (and trainmaster's window)...on fire. The brakes had hung up and the resultant sparks had ignited the floor.

Heck, on the old 15:59/ 7-day-per local jobs, there were enough crew members to be able to sleep in shifts. When the company yanked the firemen in the mid 60's, engineers started keeling over in the saddle, or so I was led to believe.

-E.O.

Excellent stories, all of them.

SLOCONDR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark,
> Write all the stories you can recall. Most rails
> have a few good stories to tell. One of these days
> I'm going to let loose with some.. Even now, as I
> read about things guys have written, it normally
> reminds me of something during my career, so like
> I said, one of these days.
>
>
>
> V
>
> SLOCONDR

Come on, V. What else do you have to do these days except cash your retirement check. Let's hear 'em.

There was a Middle Division brakeman. He hired out after 1966. I will not give his name. The short version was MWR. He came off the Rock Island. I do not know, if MWR finished his career on the Santa Fe or not. DDG might know? If you have a trainman's, conductor roster or a Big 4 Time Book, you should be able to figure it out.

His wife divorce him and she married RD. There are a number of us on TO that worked the Santa Fe Middle Division. I have no idea, what number she was.

RD was a quite the ladies man!!!!!!! He had to be about 55-60 years old, when this happen.

I enjoyed working with RD.

Gary A. Rich
Aurora, CO

hogheaded Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Three decades ago I worked the caboose with this
> old head SP conductor (whose name I won't mention,
> because bless his heart, he is still kicking) who
> could not stay awake for the life of him. When we
> climbed aboard he might be animatedly talking with
> me about something, but as soon as the wheels
> began to turn, he'd be out like a light. According
> to his fellow senior rails, this was a lifetime
> affliction. Early in his career, while decorating
> the top of an empty reefer block as a swing
> brakeman, he climbed down into an empty bunker for
> some shuteye. The train developed a hot box near
> his resting place, and eventually the journal
> burned off with the obvious consequences. Later in
> his career, he was alone (and asleep) on his
> caboose for some reason as it rolled into town
> past the yard office (and trainmaster's
> window)...on fire. The brakes had hung up and the
> resultant sparks had ignited the floor.
>
> Heck, on the old 15:59/ 7-day-per local jobs,
> there were enough crew members to be able to sleep
> in shifts. When the company yanked the firemen in
> the mid 60's, engineers started keeling over in
> the saddle, or so I was led to believe.
>
> -E.O.

That's a beauty Ed. I was told of one old freight hoghead (don't remember his name) who used to frequently nod off behind the throttle, but would always perk up in time to blow the horn for a crossing or set the air for a restriction. I always had my doubts as to the accuracy of the story, but who knows? I've heard stranger ones.

There were at least a couple SP commute hogheads who used to like to catch up on their sleep while the fireman ran the train. This probably isn't so unusual and might not have been so bad if it was at night, but this was in broad daylight. We were trying to justify firemen's jobs at the time and there they would be, totally zonked out for all to see as the train pulled onto a full platform of waiting passengers. Heaven forbid they could hang a coat or some item to try to conceal their slumber. Used to drive me crazy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/15 19:23 by CPCoyote.

waycar_rider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a Middle Division brakeman. He hired out
> after 1966. I will not give his name. The short
> version was MWR. He came off the Rock Island. I do
> not know, if MWR finished his career on the Santa
> Fe or not. DDG might know? If you have a
> trainman's, conductor roster or a Big 4 Time Book,
> you should be able to figure it out.
>
> His wife divorce him and she married RD. There are
> a number of us on TO that worked the Santa Fe
> Middle Division. I have no idea, what number she
> was.
>
> RD was a quite the ladies man!!!!!!! He had to be
> about 55-60 years old, when this happen.
>
> I enjoyed working with RD.
>
> Gary A. Rich
> Aurora, CO

i'm sure there's a sleep reference in this post somewhere :-)

Posted from Android

If you read the original post, It mentions RD Bush. I was making a comment about RD. DDG even made a comment about that he was married 13 times. So, no my post was not about sleeping but the engineer that was mention!!!!!!!!

Gary A. Rich
Aurora, CO

waycar_rider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you read the original post, It mentions RD
> Bush. I was making a comment about RD. DDG even
> made a comment about that he was married 13 times.
> So, no my post was not about sleeping but the
> engineer that was mention!!!!!!!!
>
> Gary A. Rich
> Aurora, CO

was just a sarcastic facetious comment GR no harm meant just havin a lil fun ... i enjoy all of the posts you guys write ... as for RD havin 13 wives ... maybe he shudda been Morman !!!

Posted from Android

CPCoyote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There were at least a couple SP commute hogheads
> who used to like to catch up on their sleep while
> the fireman ran the train. This probably isn't so
> unusual and might not have been so bad if it was
> at night, but this was in broad daylight. We were
> trying to justify firemen's jobs at the time and
> there they would be, totally zonked out for all to
> see as the train pulled onto a full platform of
> waiting passengers. Heaven forbid they could hang
> a coat or some item to try to conceal their
> slumber. Used to drive me crazy.

I understand your feelings. We had an old fireman who would either be zonked out or holding up a newspaper for all to see as the engine would be traveling back and forth through a fair sized town in Kansas. After losing my job for a few years and finally getting back to work I was firing for this same fellow on a local with 10 mph track. He hadn't changed much. Even though he now was the engineer he would still do his sleeping. I did get tickled at watching him. Whenever the speed would get to around 15-18 the severe rocking back and forth would cause him to set some air without opening his eyes. In a little while when we came to a stop that little jolt would wake him up enough so he would release the brakes, advance the throttle and do the process all over again. He was railroading by feel instead of sight. I guess we did average about 10 mph!

A quick comment on RD's love life that has been brought up. I think the trainman's ex was RD's wife number 10 or 11. She was around 30 and fairly good looking. That marriage didn't last very long.

We had a hoghead out of SLO that had a sleeping disorder. I can't recall the term but it was a medical problem. I worked with him for the first time in 69 on a red tag veto out of SLO to Santa Barb. We were called for the Zipper and away we went, right on time. What I didn't know about John Weaver was that he would fall asleep after the train got going and you would have to keep an eye on him. He would wake up once and awhile but I had to go over quite a few times and kinda shake his sholder. He was a good hoghead and stayed on the east pool even after we ran through to LA.

I had a conversation with Engineer George McCarron one night on a helper, telling him about that trip. He said everyone knew it including RFE, LEP, but they didn't want to see him B/O ed and everyone watched him. He then said the next time he worked with me he would bring me something to read.

Turned out that John couldn't work in SLO, many years back and at the time so he was working out of the City as a Fireman on #76 down and #75 back. He was on #75 when it got into the side of $76 at Serrano. The hogger had dozed off too, but I can't remember his name. (He was retired when I came along.Hans Ekhome comes to mind but I am not sure) They both took an unpaid vacation. It happened sometime in the 50s I think. Not to be confused with the rear ender with the Lark, at Wellsona years before.

We have all had our times with our feet up, out like a light, sitting in a siding somewhere. When we started running thru Santa Barb, you flip a coin and see who would drive the first or second half of the trip. Thats when we had 5 man crews. I remember in the 70s I had my friend Ralph Elliott on the #374 as the head brakeman from SLO to LA. (His brother, Clyde,aka "Snake" was also a trainmen on the Coast. Because of my Fireman, he went back to the second unit to ride. I pulled up to a stop at the west switch at Chatsworth. I waited and finally Ralph came thru the back door, wiping the sleep from his eyes. He asked, "Why are we stopped here?" I told him we kinda needed to head in for No. 13. He trotted out the door and lined the switch. We pulled in the clear and Atk never got any color. We used to needle him for years, until he pulled the pin.

I have a true story which a lot of people have asked me to post. As soon as I get a chance I will post it. Its about an official we used to call, "SOB" in SLO. Stay tuned.


Nudge

That was Henry Van Zandt that got into 76 at Serrano. Weaver was the fireman and claimed he was back in the units working on the boiler.

Weaver's wife Mary was a crew clerk at Watsonville Jct.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/15 21:23 by Exespee.

CPCoyote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That's a beauty Ed. I was told of one old freight
> hoghead (don't remember his name) who used to
> frequently nod off behind the throttle, but would
> always perk up in time to blow the horn for a
> crossing or set the air for a restriction. I
> always had my doubts as to the accuracy of the
> story, who knows? I've heard stranger ones.

Heck Mike, one night Bob Whittle and I took a call for an unexpected second Perishable at the Miramar (the crew callers were very astute), and we were still "sleepy" (in keeping with the subject thread) after we air-tested (still had carmen in WJ then) and departed the yard. Long before Aromas Bob was already nodding off, but doggone if he didn't wake up for every signal, crossing and air pinch point. Bob, strike me with lightning from up there if I'm fibbing.

-E.O.