Railroaders' Nostalgia > Those damned steam hoses...

Someone recently posted commentary about steam hoses on passenger trains. That post reminded me of an occasion when I worked as a brakeman on a passenger special from LA to Santa Barbara about 1966 or so. This special train was operated for the LA Opera Association. The train ran out of the Mission Road coach yard right up the Eastbank main line and loaded its passengers at Glendale. The consist was two F-7s back to back, a daylight articulated coach, a Sunset Audubon bar car, another articulated coach, a Golden State bar car, another articulated coach, and Santa Fe open platform observation car 1509.
You may have concluded that (a) this was a high society group (b) they planned to do a lot of imbibing on the trip, and (c) SP was very concerned that there were no problems or embarrassment on the train.
We followed the Daylight, train 99, to Glendale. There were about 250 people on the platform as we pulled in, and in addition, there were 6 baggage trucks loaded with "beverages" and snacks for the passengers. The baggage trucks had to be unloaded into the bar cars, but within 15 minutes we were underway. I sensed that this would be a really fun trip - the party began before we cleared the platform!
By the time we approached the tunnels at Chatsworth, I had walked back thru the train to the Santa Fe observation car. The rear brakeman was an extra board man who didn't really see anything interesting about passenger trains, or high living passengers - - it was just a job to him. He went back to his racing form.
I stepped outside on the platform and snagged the orders at Santa Susana. The dispatcher gave us a straight up meet at Moorpark with the second section of freight train 834. I walked back toward the front of the train with the orders in my hand, to inform the conductor about the meet. I found "Jimmy" in the first bar car, where he was doing his best to see that several attractive women enjoyed their trip, the music, and the refreshments. I offered the orders to Jimmy, but he waved them away, telling me to take care of them (the orders, that is).
Approaching MoorPark, I "pulled" the signal valve in the vestibule one long blast, to remind the engineer of the straight up meet ahead. "Beep,Beep" was the reply. The rest of the trip to Santa Barbara was uneventful, a clear order board at Oxnard, and stop to detrain all the passengers at Carpinteria where they would be taken by busses to see a polo match. At Santa Barbara, we yarded the train in the freight yard, and decided to get some lunch. Jimmy was with us - he thought for sure he would be invited to the polo match but that apparently didn't work out. Now, Jimmy was a real veteran rail - he had many years of service and he assured me he knew a good place for lunch on Milpas Street, just a short distance away. As we entered this establishment, I didn't see any indication that they served food....I was right. Jimmy told me he would just have a drink or two and not eat!
I joined Jimmy for a while and enjoyed a cold beer but I then excused myself saying that I would get a sandwich somewhere.
I did just that, and then wandered down toward the train in the freight yard. We still had to break the steam hoses on the engines and the Santa Fe obs, turn the obs car on the turntable, and reassemble the train, and make a air test. We were supposed to leave about 600pm, pick up the group at Carpinteria, and head for Los Angeles.
Breaking the steam hoses was not too hard, just drive the spring loaded "dogs" above the joint of the hoses, and then lift the hoses up and they would come apart. Re-coupling them was another issue. I ended up lying on my back between the cars wrestling the steam hoses above my head while trying to make them meet and match. I ruined a good white shirt and wasted 342 four letter bad words doing that, but we were done and ready to go an hour before departure.
Ah, but where was Jimmy? He hadn't returned from his liquid lunch three hours earlier. I hurried over to his favorite "restaurant", and found him just starting back to the yard. It was just as well I went beck there as he needed a little guidance to get back to work. He said he had met someone in the bar. "Jimmy, when we get back to the train, why don't you get up there in the head coach and relax and finish your paperwork?" He grunted and said that was a good idea. I told him I would stop by the yard office and get our orders for the return trip. There was no need for him to go to the office!
Right on the minute, we departed from the yard at Santa Barbara, and rolled to a stop at Carpinteria just as the busses pulled up. These folks had really enjoyed that afternoon in the sun on the polo field. Most of them were well lubricated for the return journey.
We ran steadily back toward Los Angeles. Leaving Ventura, I walked forward thru the train, both to observe how badly potted some of the guests were, and to check with Jimmy. When I last saw him leaving Carpinteria, he was checking his eyelids in the conductor's seat in the head coach, but now I found him dancing in full uniform in one of the bar cars, beverage in hand, moving smoothly with two very nicely dressed women who were really enjoying his company!
At Oxnard, a red order board gave us orders to help us get a little farther toward home in the face of opposing trains 75 (The lark) and the hot pig train 373. With luck, we could meet both trains at Santa Susana.
As we approached Santa Susana, I pulled the cord again, and we eased to a stop at the West switch of the siding. In a moment, the fireman had lined the switch and we pulled into the siding. I watch the rear to be certain the rear brakeman lined the switch back, and he did. We eased up to the East end of the siding, and there we sat. In 1966, there was not much in Santa Susana except the main highway along the tracks, a few small stores, and perhaps a few houses. At Nine o'clock on a Sunday evening, it was very quiet out there. Then suddenly, you knew - a train was coming! Rolling downhill from the three tunnels, a train was not as noisy as we expected. I had opened a vestibule on the head coach, stepped down to the ground, and walked across the mainline to "roll by" the opposing train. As the headlight and engine of the first train popped around the curve and hill East of us, I saw 1-75 in the indicators and green signals above that. The engineman dutifully sounded a long and two shots as he approached us (Carrying signals for a following section). Our engineer answer with two short blasts (OK) and I acknowledged with a wave of my lantern. Whoosh! No 75 roared by with it's usual train of about 12 cars. The block signals went out, everything was dark and quiet again. We waited. I walked around kicking cans and rocks and just waiting....I glanced across the main track to the siding where our train was fully lighted up, and the party was still roaring. I couldn't see anybody in a conductor's uniform but perhaps he was dancing?
About 10 minutes later, the routine of noise and rumble repeated itself, and 2-75 roared thru, but this time, there were no signals for following sections. Second 75 was apparently a trainload of military recruits (draftees) enroute to Ford Ord, near Monterey.
And we waited.....and about 20 minutes later, no. 373, the overnite TOFC train from LA to San Francisco, stuck it's nose around the hill roared thru, but oh no! green signals! and, in the engine number boards (indicators), was 1-373 and green signals above them. Another 20 or 30 minutes...and finally, 2-373, the last section, rolls by and we can go. I jump aboard the coach as we pull out of the siding thru the spring switch. 35 minutes to Glendale! We pull into Glendale about an hour and 30 minutes off the plan, but seemed as if no one really cared - they had a marvelous time! But where was Jimmy? Oh oh! The baggage wagons were out on the platform to carry all the left over beverages and snacks. Jimmy was standing on the rear of the third cart in a string a five, and when the string started forward, the slack tricked Jimmy and he did a somersault heels over head, landing on his feet and then falling face forward, but unhurt. We quickly loaded him up, hiballed Glendale, and never mentioned Jimmy's favorite trip. ( For obvious reasons, Jimmy's full name is not mentioned here!)

TIOGA PASS

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

Great story, thanks for posting.

I agree.

Good story!, that was obviously in the days before the railroad lowered the boom on drinking by employees on or subject to duty. I was a late bloomer and did not make my first student trips as a fireman until late 1979. I was called to go with an engineer on a trip from Los Angeles to Bakersfield. Our conductor was a no show so they broke the call. I learned later from the engineer that it was just as well with him because the said conductor was sh tfaced. I did see a crew caller at Yuma once trying to talk somebody into taking a stewed conductor on board a caboose and keep him out of sight but by then, most of that kind of stuff was history following the fatal rear end collision at Thousand Palms. I could see the wreckage still burning on my first trip to Yuma several days after the accident.

CRS

Great story! Gad, we've all been there, if not in the tank ourselves.

One night, when I was an absolutely green new hire as we crossed SP's Dumbarton Bridge over SF Bay, my engineer passed out drunk and slumped out of his seat and onto the deck. The fireman took over, and did the same thing...One Thankgiving another brakeman and I labored for half-an-hour in trying to get a 400 pound drunk conductor to negotiate his way onto the caboose and finally had to get the carman to help...And the time that the conductor, other brakeman and I spent the layover on a National Model Railroader Convention special train quaffing beers at the local cantina, although we were not nearly as worse for wear as your conductor was...

So, I ask naively, does anyone want to venture a guess on the breadth and depth of boozing in the days before random testing? I doubt that we can prove anything, here, but I AM interested in your perceptions.

I would subjectively venture that most of the guys that I worked with were not above having an occasional beer, or two while on-duty, but few of us made a habit of it, and even fewer worked with a heat on. Am I being naive?

The collapse of beer cans out of the Visitation Shanty (Bayshore) ceiling onto an electrician in the early 70's *seemingly* supports what many SF switchmen have claimed to me, that Bayshore and South San Francisco yards were full of heavy drinkers. Was this was merely macho B.S., or largely true?

And then there was the 1980 NTSB letter to B.F. Biaggini voicing concern over SP's apparent inability to control employee drinking (http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2373126,2373807#msg-2373807). Was this what prompted SP to try forcing mandatory Intoxilixer tests on employees, resulting in a wildcat strike at Watsonville Junction (or was the strike in '79?)? My feeling is that we employees were more concerned about the officials fiddling with the tests (like the oft-expressed concern about piss tests), rather than turning up dirty.

Myself, I really can't come up with even an approximate answer to the extent of drinking amongst us in the old days. All that I know is that mandatory testing made honest people out of most of us.

I'd surely like to hear a slant on this from all of you rails. The SP references were merely examples.

EO
Currently working on my first Manhattan; call to work highly unlikely

As a follower and even an employee of the old SP, I appreciate the details of your story, especially waiting for other trains in a meet. What I wonder is when this multi-train meet in past years occurred on other railroads, how did the crew tell the identity of those passing / opposing trains without the number boards that almost no other railroad used? Anything less would seem to me to be insufficient.

hogheaded Wrote:
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> Currently working on my first Manhattan; call to
> work highly unlikely

Brandy Manhattan? Of course.

-John

Here's an answer to two questions at once!

On many other railroads, and the SP after the number boards were made to read the engine number permanently, a train received an order at its initial station which read: Number 98 has engine 3201. All opposing trains got that order when they either left their originating station, or further down the line when an opposing train's schedule became effective.

The SP then started running all Westbound trains as extras, which actually made timetable operation a little easier.

There was considrably more drinking going on than you saw, Ed. With a fireman, engineer, and a brakeman in the cab, many times at least one of the three was impaired.
We had an interlocking operator who wasn't even over his derail show up drunk at Los Nietos. A baggageman who worked from LA to Santa Barbara, then laid over for four hours before working back. He blew a .26 alcohol level at the emergency room after two of us ATMs took him there because he said he was sick. A brakeman at Lompoc transferred from Eugene because the ATS there had put five discussions of rule 810 (not protecting his assignment) and finally a discussion of rule G on his record. He showed up drunk at Guadalupe looking for a job to bump on, and two people called me. He bumped on one of my jobs at Lompoc, so I made a point of meeting him the next day. He was sober on Monday, but drank his lunch on Wednesday. The pinpuller on one of the LA hump jobs kept a flat half pint stashed in the steam generator of the lead SD7 of the hump set. The head brakeman on #2 between El Paso and Sanderson couldn't work six hours without a drink. Alcohol was at least half the cause of the rear-ender in Indio in 1973. Alcohol and marijuana was the cause of the death of the engineer at Thousand Palms in 1978. They got a .18 alcohol level on his body, after being on duty for six hours before the accident. Do the math, what was his level going on duty at Yuma, or was he drinking on the way? How about the conductor who worked from LA to SLO, then went to Tortilla Flats and got drunk, then charged the company for a cab ride to the motel! We had Dangerous Dan G who got so drunk in SLO while 1st out to go back to LA that he passed out and missed the call. The 2nd out engineer poured him in the carryall, and then onto the 2nd unit to try and get him home. Didn't work because of the missed call, and they were looking for him. The 2nd engineer was very lucky not to have gotten fired over hiding him. A crew left Elko with the fuel hose on the 3rd unit, and a red flag on the lead unit. Needless to say, after the radio call when they got to the engine there was no flag, but the section crew found it the next day. The engineer blew positive. Then we had "Loose Nuts" who was on the anytime test call who told them when they called him at home that he couldn't come in because he couldn't drive like this!

Good stuff Norm. Perhaps the subject line should read, "Those damned drunk conductors!" LOL

Great post on Los Angeles Division history and about changes in the RR culture.
We can be sure that every railroad has similar tales.
As AGM-Engineering at Houston in about '86 I had no idea of the extent of the drinking until management ordered a 100% test of officers one morning.
Close to a dozen of our engineering officers (roadmasters, etc.) came back with big BAC numbers and had to enter rehab. I just wasn't seeing it, I trusted them too much.
One very sad case was a young engineering employee whose father was a fairly senior officer flatly told his dad he was resigning, having access to pot was more important than his job.
After the requirement to test everyone having a motor vehicle accident we had some ugly surprises too: for example an employee with a little "fender bender" at 800 AM blew 0.08.
In my case I had had a beer (one) with dinner the night before the test and passed.
More interestingly, a group of officers were out dining and drinking somewhat moderately when the rumor arrived that there would be a test the next day. About half the group went back to their rooms immediately, the other half said "we can handle it" and stayed out until after midnight, and to a man failed the next morning's test.
In the end it isn't so much about the physiological impairment as it is the judgement and risk-taking personality style that "Rule G" had to be enforced.
(Oh the culture dies hard, now the rule about alcohol and drugs isn't Rule G, it is Rule 1.5, the reason that is easy to remember is that there is 1.5 ounces in a shot of whiskey.)

Mike,
You're right on, and the Operating Dept wasn't much different.
We all knew the saying in LA, Calif has green pastures and lush meadows after an Assistant Terminal Supt got a DUI in a Company car. I was on a division testing team where I was the only one out of four that was sober. I left the other three at 11pm and went to bed. They stayed in a bar until 2am. The next morning none of them could hear the phone, and we didn't get on the road until 1pm.

The radio repairman in SLO got a DUI his company truck.

The best one however is when I was working at Anaheim and the Term Supts office in LA called to ask if I could come in and get a citation notice for a brakeman working on my district. I did, then went in the crew dispatcher's office to find out which job he was on. Turns out he wasn't at Anaheim, they said he was at Colton working the Riverside, and asked if I would do them a favor and take it out there.

Since I wasn't familiar with the Riverside Branch after dark, I called Bill the planner who said he would help me find them. We drove up to the cowboy bar where they were into beans in my white Valiant Company car with blackwall tires and a radio antenna. Both of us had on white shirts, jeans, boots and handset radios, and as we got out of the car, two good looking girls got out of the car that parked behind us. They were really giving us the eye as we all walked in. I found the engineer and one brakeman playing Asteroids with a glass of beer on each side of the game. Bill found the conductor and the other brakeman at the bar with a burger and beer each. The conductor was trying to tell Bill that "its not my beer, they didn't clean the table!" About this time the engineer and the other brakeman looked up to see what the commotion was, and saw me watching them play. Then there was a bump on my leg, and one of the two girls who had come in behind us wrapped herself around my leg and started rubbing me. "I just love policemen!"
So here I am getting humped, Paul and Grady are laughing their asses off, and the Condr. and the other brakeman are trying to tell me now that it isn't their beer.
None of them were under the influence, so I asked the Condr who I didn't know if I looked stupid to him? He stammered around and finally said "No, you look real smart to me!" So then I asked him why he thought I would believe a story like that? He finally said it was the only thing he could think of. So after I finally got the girl to stop rubbing me by telling her I wasn't a cop, I worked for a railroad, we suggested that the crew have a coke with their dinner, because the next officers might not be so friendly.

The big problem was that the brakeman I was looking for was on the Rialto instead of the Riverside, so after all of that, I still didn't have my signature.

Ed,
You got me all wound up, so here goes another one!

Before mandatory random testing, but when testing after an accident was required, an Eastbound out of Roseville to Sparks hit a car in Reno.

The fireman had a reputation, and knew he couldn't pass the test, so as the chain of custody wasn't very well developed then, all the tester did was hand the crew five bottles and tell them to "Go in there and fill 'em up." They all did, except the fireman got a sober brakeman to fill his cup as well.

A really good idea, except he came back dirty anyhow, but he couldn't say anything because he would have been fired for dishonesty, which would have been permanent!

LarryDoyle Wrote:
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> hogheaded Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Currently working on my first Manhattan; call
> to
> > work highly unlikely
>
> Brandy Manhattan? Of course.

Oh PLEASE, John - rye, RYE!



So, here's a follow-up question to you former SP officers with a long memory: Prior to the wrecks which prompted the 1980 NTSB letter (still wondering if the Intoxilizer & resulting WJ strike were a consequence), was there was there much concern about drinking/drugs expressed out of Market Street? I remember constant safety campaigns, but nothing relating to Rule G. It's not lost upon me that a standard test spot where I worked was next to a cocktail lounge.

SUBSEQUENT NOTE; I'VE STARTED A NEW THREAD ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF BOOZE.

EO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/15 09:46 by hogheaded.

Ed,
I think the change occurred after the 1978 wreck at Thousand Palms.

I was privvy to the testimony due to my boss holding the investigation, and interestingly enough, none of the off-duty stuff was published in the final report.

After the 1973 rear-ender at Indio, the company tried to hang the responsibility on the Trainmaster at Yuma. Then they found out that he had done more testing, and assessed more discipline than any other officer on the division, so things got quiet. After Thousand Palms the officers on the Yuma Division went from the TM at Yuma and an ATM at El Centro, to an ATS, an ATM and an RFE at Yuma, as well as the ATM at El Centro, so there would always be an officer on duty at Yuma to sniff the crews going on duty.

The crew on the striking train at Thousand Palms had gone on duty in West Colton about 8pm the night before, and spent most of the night getting to Yuma. Upon arrival, the mods were full, so the engineer took his car and got two rooms at the overflow motel. The head brakeman took his car to pick up the girls and the rest of the stuff, and the party started. They partied all day, and went back on duty that evening with no sleep.

There were three Westbounds in a row, they were the second, and neither them nor the train in front had enough power to go single. The BSM was the 3rd, and the plan was to head the first two in the long siding at Thousand Palms, one on each side of the CTC crossover, to let the BSM pass. Then the 2nd train was to cut off his power and help the first train to the top, then come back, and by that time they figured on having a helper available.

The first Westbound stopped at the West signal, and was stopped for six or seven minutes before he was hit by the second. Ahead of the caboose were a couple of empty rear end only pig flats which jacknifed instead of the caboose jumping up on the engine. The head brakeman escaped before the fire started, and the engineer was found on the left front of the lead unit. The BSM was going up the main on a green at the East end which went red in his face, and then he saw the fire start and was able to stop short.

Now the stories begin! The rear brakeman on the stopped train told his first story at the Eisenhower Medical Center in Palm Springs. He was walking up the train and had gotten several cars up when he realized that the 2nd train wasn't on the main, and wasn't going to stop, so he ran back yelling at the conductor to get out. He didn't make it and ran sideways towards I-10 to avoid the wreck. The conductor said he was getting out of his chair to roll the train by, so he was braced when the engine hit and he wasn't hurt. He did admit he would have missed rolling by the first couple of units.

Compensation set in, and memory was obviously real short, as an accident form (2611) was submitted a week later, along with a claim for a sprained ankle jumping off the caboose to avoid a wreck, a jacket, lamp, gloves, switch keys, and a hundred dollars burned up in his grip because they might have been sent to El Centro on the way back. Once their greiver found out what happened, he tried damage control by bringing in their head brakeman to say that they just stopped before they got hit. The conducting officer asked the head brakeman in the 2nd investigation (for dishonesty and rule M) if he wanted to change his testimony from the first FRA investigation, and after some coughing and clearing his throat, he said no. So Jimmy got a bunch of time off for a false accident report, and Tony got time off for sleeping.

Because the crew stayed all day in a private motel that didn't have a nighttime maid, the rooms weren't cleaned when the crew left. After the accident, the SP Police had the Yuma Police seal the rooms until they could be inspected the next day.

The inspection revealed numerous empty bottles, the smell of marijuana was still present, along with burned papers etc, and white powder residue.

As previously mentioned, the engineer's blood alcohol level was .18. This was after about five hours on duty, which would have either made his level much higher at Yuma, or something was consumed enroute. There was considerable speculation that a six pack or two was purchased at an AM-PM while the train was stopped behind another train on the double track track East of Indio. There was no way to document a stop, as the CTC machine wasn't equipped to record anything on the double track.

You can get the whole ICC report on line for the 1979 Thousand Palms rear ender along with the 1973 Indio rear ender.

Another GREAT yarn, Norm...see you Sat., March 21st...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/15 14:12 by RD10747.