Railroaders' Nostalgia > Signing for a Big Fat Lap

There was a guy in the Bakersfield office, D, let's say, who was the sloppiest and most disorganized (and scariest) spatch I've ever worked with. I heard from some colleagues, but never corroborated, that he wasn't found responsible for a collision on the Coalinga branch, long before I hired out, that he could have anticipated and prevented but didn't.  I learned to relieve him with great trepidation.

It takes a bit of background to understand it.

First, the SP dispatcher rules prohibited more than two forms (run extra, has right, wait, etc.) in one order. You could say run extra has right. You could say has right and wait at. You couldn't say run extra has right and wait at, etc.

Second, when there are regular trains and the train is not specific to the train type (18 on Santa Fe was pretty specific, but empty flats LA to Portland could be on 801, 803, 805, etc. it made no difference) and there will be another section, it will be a section of the last train you ran. If you run 801 and there will be another train before 803 is due, hang rags (display signals - green flags) on 801. If 801 is gone and 803 is due, the next train is 803. If there will be another before 805, hang rags on 803.

Third, in order to organize the information, dispatchers would put trains on the trainsheet in the order they were running, from the first train of the day near the station column to the last train of the day at the outside edge. If there were regular trains, a column or group of columns would be set up on the trainsheet in advance so that nothing would be overlooked. If there were schedules of different classes, the first class trains were near the station column, second class next, third class next, etc. If there was an unusual movement, it would be separated from the other trains on the sheet so that it wouldn't be overlooked. Practices varied from railroad to railroad and office to office, but this is a general overview of the way the information was organized.

Fourth, try to stick out orders in the sequence that they will be used/needed. Spatch shouldn't need to go back behind pages of dead (fulfilled) orders to find live ones. As the day wears on, dead orders are scrubbed (initialed out) and pages with no live orders are lined out (diagonal line across the page), the pages of live orders should be together with the dead pages all behind the oldest live order.

Fifth, the standard practice was to issue running authority last. Before running a train, stick out what it needs on every train it will encounter, physically or on paper. In train order operation, a lap of authority (overlapping authority - a lap in dispatcherspeak) involves more than one train authorized to use the same track at the same time. For example, in Air Traffic Control, as long as they aren't within 5 miles lateral and 1000 feet vertical (generally), there is no problem. Two planes can be authorized courses leading to a collision as long as the controller intervenes before minimum separation. Train orders had an absolute interpretation of separation. If two trains held authority to a segment of track simultaneously, even if they would arrive there 18 hours apart and never see each other, it was considered a lap and technically a collision. The last thing to do before sticking out a running order or clearing a regular train was to go through the trainsheet, the timetable, and the train order book to see if they had everything that they needed.

That's the basics. I know it's complicated, but train order dispatching was complicated. This has actually been the Cliffs Notes version.

Now, on to relieving D.

He would run a couple of sections of, let's say 801, then run 805 with no signals, then run third 801. The trains would be on the trainsheet in that order rather than all of the 801s together then the 803.

He would fix some trains long before he needed to and stick out nothing in advance for others. There would be trains two hours away from Mojave that had running authority and something on every train out there and on some that were just on duty in LA, but the guy looking at Mojave had nothing on anybody, including the west man that was looking at Palmdale, the next open office.

He stuck out the longest, most rambling and confusing orders I have ever seen, something like

Eng 7900 run extra East Mojave to Burbank Jct
has right over first 801 East Mojave to Burbank Jct
and wait at
Oban until 1230pm
take siding meet First 803 at Denis
has right over third 801 East Mojave to Burbank Jct
and wait at
Vincent until 110pm for third 801
Second 801 wait at Ansel until 1145am

This train might be three hours away from Mojave, but there he was fixed with running authority, just needing to be cleared when he got to Mojave. Notice that he doesn't have anything on second, or any other, 803. He can go to Denis for the first one, but has to stay clear of 803's time. That leads to what is known as wired apart: unable to leave Mojave or somewhere in between for 2/803 at the same time as can go to Denis for first 803.

You'd come to work and sign for a bunch of these, mixed in with pages of dead orders.

Then there was the Palmdale Local. They worked around Palmdale, but went to Mojave three times a week. All westward trains were regular trains. There were second class schedules spaced throughout the day for use as dispatcher tools. Having regular trains in one direction made it easier to not miss something. The exception was the Palmdale Local, always an extra Palmdale to East Mojave.

The Valley/Mountain job had a radio at Tehachapi. It was the only radio in the office. It could cover the east side of the mountain pretty well, out to sometimes as far as Palmdale, and the west side only down to around Cable.

On this day, I relieved D and it was what I was just learning was the usual thing. D was one of those hurry-up guys. When he relieved you, he couldn't wait to get in the chair and didn't want to hear a word you had to say. Yeah, ok, I got it, go on, go home. When you relieved him, it was it's all good you got it? I one time relieved another guy on his first pay trip back from being canned for leaving a train off of the track car lineup. As I was studying the orders, the trainsheet, and the lineup, he kept telling me it was all good, you got it now? It was hard to not say Let's see, today's your first pay trip back from lapping a lineup (leaving a train off is functionally the same as telling a gandy to use the track then running him over with a train) and you're going to tell me that I don't need to look at it?

Something wasn't right. I could feel it, but I couldn't figure it out. I studied the orders and the trainsheet. I paged back through several times, all the while listening to him got it yet? Everything's fixed. Got it?

OK, yeah. See you tomorrow. I signed the train order book and the trainsheet.

Mojave coming east.

Uh...and I looked through the orders again. This guy had been fixed on one of those convoluted orders hours ago. It looked like he had something on everybody. I wasn't sure where he would go for them, but at least he had something. No more. (the orders you have are what he gets, clear him - make out the clearance and read it back to me)

Mojave cleared the east man and I told him ok out (ok to leave the table and go out with the orders). That voice kept nagging me. What is it? I started going through the whole book and penciling the trainsheet with who had what on who. The one and only westward extra, the Palmdale Local, was there on the sheet between regular trains. Back through the orders one more time and...Oh crap!

I jumped up from the table, ran in to the Valley/Mountain room, grabbed Kenny Galyan's chair, shoved him aside, turned on the Tehachapi radio and said

Saugus dispatcher to the Palmdale Local!

Yeah, we see him dispatcher, we'll get in here at Rosamond for him.

Kenny chuckled. Relieved D, didn't you? First time?

That was it. Nothing came of it. Nothing ever did when he was involved. Nobody knew why. I learned to look for traps with a microscope, which came in handy years later when BN management would repeatedly try to trap me into an infraction.

TAW

 

TAW,
I  will not go into all the details,mainly because it will take time.But,I will tell what I can
from memory.(Oh yea!)
Back in the early forties a SB Seaboard Air Line passenger train was given a meet order at
West Lake Wales,Fl.for another NB passerger at Hypoloxo,Fl. over 150 miles distant.
The SB was to take the siding for the NB.It did not and, they met in a bad crash! The SB
was to pass three before the meet.He passed only two and kept going..Does that make sense?
Never could figure why the SB would over run the last signal.After that no more orders
were handled over a long distance.

Uncle Joe,Seffner,Fl.

These are great stories and a joy to read.  I hate to sound like a fan club groupie, but I'm always happy to see TAW in the author column.

Andy

Yes, his stories are very interesting.  Just wonder if TAW's hair is gray, or all gone!

Agreed. Whenever I see one of your stories, I always immediately read them as they are always informative and entertaining. Thank you for sharing!

From the trainman  side I was  conductor on a work train back in the  Fall of 76 on the Topeka Branch between Lomax on the mainline and Topeka. We had been out there three days tieing up at Topeka. We decided rather than tieing up in Topeka we would ride with the Roadmaster and his  Assistant  back to Osawatomie and tie up there and be home and ride back the next day. We told the dispatcher what we were going to do and he was OK with it.  The third  trick guy always issued our orders and we picked them up at the yard office before leaving for the train in Topeka. On the last day, which was a Sunday, we picked up our orders, and headed for Topeka and the  Roadmaster told us that we would bring the train back to Osawatomie. As we worked unloading ribbon rail on the branch, (abandoned now)  The  first trick guy sat down and and got ready to issue orders for another work train to go up the branch,but since it  was  Sunday and not knowing about the work train already out there; he didn't bother to check the train order book, and issued two running orders from Osawatomie to Lomax, and Lomax to Topeka.   Along about 5:00 P.M. we finished unloading the last of the ribbon rail and were heading to Lomax, when the engineer noticed another train lining the switch off the Osawatomie  Sub to the Topeka Sub. thinking he overlooked something he called me, and I assured him we were supposed to be the only train on the branch.  He brought our train to a normal stop and the other work train saw us and stopped as well,but there  we were; headlight to headlight  about two car lengths apart. I walked over and met the other conductor who was a old head who demanded to know why he didn't have anything on our train. I told him he  was talking to wrong guy,but we both went to the phone and second trick dispatcher  was in a panic. I talked to him first and and I could hear him turning the pages on the trainorder book until I heard a Oh Oh.  I assured him no body had run into anyone but had it been 15 minutes either way;we would have a cornfield meet. Since there was no place to meet either train, the dispatcher issued a Form T Train Order Establishing  Temporary Yard Limits west of the junction switch  to allow the west bound work train to back up and then pull  west  by the switch and allow the train I was on to leave. Neither one of  the crews reported the incident,but I would imagine the next day the first trick guy found out just how close he came a tragedy

Tom, as I read your tale I am transported back to my youth when I would read the yellowed pulp pages of
Railroad Magazine and those epic stories of Harry Bedwell and his fictionalized character of Eddie Sand. 
Depending on the story, Eddie was a boomer train order operator or possibly a DS and  the flow of your narrative
brings us into your world. Reading these accounts reminds me again that I'm glad I worked mainly in CTC. I Love
these accounts; they're like no others.

But of course all DS's and especially chiefs are bald as billiard balls from pulling what little tufts remain out of their
scalps wondering 'What the deuce is that hoghead doing now?'

Charlie

Always a potential trap for the next DS to mix "flat waits" and "wait fors" in the same order as shown
in your example.  We had a lap on the ICG when one DS put out a work order that contained some 
"flat waits" instead of saying "wait at xxx until xxx for Work Extra 9610".  Work train tied up, next DS annulled the work
order, so No. 262 did not get it.  Overlooked was an extra out there who still had the work order
and used the flat wait to run against No. 262.  Hearing stories such as that made a big impression on 
a young train dispatcher.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/15 11:53 by Englewood.

Reading these stories makes me glad I hired on in the generation of track authoritys , though there not fool proof as my District recently found out.

Posted from Android

cewherry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But of course all DS's and especially chiefs are
> bald as billiard balls from pulling what little
> tufts remain out of their
> scalps wondering 'What the deuce is that hoghead
> doing now?'


You were a hoghead that didn't need for me to demonstrate that I knew anything about what they were doing.

On the other hand, there was one of our Vancouver - Wishram pool brothers who became totally intolerable and when I had way more than enough, I (with collaboration of Ron Schuermann, who also had more than enough) engineered running around him with the entire pool in one trip. I started with getting him seven times before he left Vancouver...but AFTER he pulled from the track his train was initially made up on (making absolutely certain that he got a caboose from Hoyt Street before going to Lake Yard for the rest of the train). Freebie!

Or, there was the way beyond intolerable hoghead in Kettle Falls who offered too many derogatory comments too often, including how my lack of railroad knowledge was astounding. Given that I was a complete idiot who could never get anything right, I set out to demonstrate what that looked like.

The Kettle Falls local power was swapped on Saturday night every week. That's it. The power you came to work with on Monday was yours through Saturday. I had a relief chief job that worked Pacific, Portland, and Spokane Divisions. It took some time to engineer through a couple of weeks of local power swaps and using local power on through freights, but I rounded up two long hood forward, no dynamic brake, 6 schedule brake GP7s for his job, the Nelson, and sent them up there. He got to play with this stuff on mountain grades all week. I never heard a word from him after that.

You were one of the great majority of good guys to work with.

TAW

I am familiar with a train sheet but what does a train order book actually look like ?
Don't recall ever seeing one.

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am familiar with a train sheet but what does a
> train order book actually look like ?
> Don't recall ever seeing one.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2301132,2301132#2301132
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2137113,2137113#2137113

TAW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/15 11:51 by TAW.

Thanks for the look at the Train Order Books
Great stuff and keep it coming.

All this makes entertaining and interesting reading but in my own career, what is entertaining now looking back at it wasn't necessarily the case at the time it was happening.

 

train1275 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the look at the Train Order Books
> Great stuff and keep it coming.
>
> All this makes entertaining and interesting
> reading but in my own career, what is
> entertaining now looking back at it wasn't
> necessarily the case at the time it was
> happening.

That's for sure.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
>
> The Kettle Falls local power was swapped on
> Saturday night every week. That's it. The power
> you came to work with on Monday was yours through
> Saturday. I had a relief chief job that worked
> Pacific, Portland, and Spokane Divisions. It took
> some time to engineer through a couple of weeks of
> local power swaps and using local power on through
> freights, but I rounded up two long hood forward,
> no dynamic brake, 6 schedule brake GP7s for his
> job, the Nelson, and sent them up there. He got to
> play with this stuff on mountain grades all week.
> I never heard a word from him after that.
>
> You were one of the great majority of good guys to
> work with.
>
> TAW

Ouch!  That stung no doubt!  Good to hear from you, TAW.
 

TAW wrote:

"The Kettle Falls local power was swapped on Saturday night every week. That's it. The power you came to work with on Monday was yours through Saturday. I had a relief chief job that worked Pacific, Portland, and Spokane Divisions. It took some time to engineer through a couple of weeks of local power swaps and using local power on through freights, but I rounded up two long hood forward, no dynamic brake, 6 schedule brake GP7s for his job, the Nelson, and sent them up there. He got to play with this stuff on mountain grades all week. I never heard a word from him after that. "

Revenge is best served cold.

Back before the end, I spent hundreds of hours at Burbank Jct. hanging out with the Operators.
I don't know why they befriended this 30 year old RTD Bus Operator.
But one night I got the courage to walk into the TO Office and this began several years of learning what it took to run Trains.
What an education I got and I will always be grateful to John and Roger for the opportunity.
They were Old School Gentlemen and I will never forget the SP trains WE dispatched through Burbank Junction.
TAH

In the seventh paragraph of the opening post, TAW wrote:

>In train order operation, a lap of authority (overlapping authority - a lap in dispatcherspeak) involves more than one train authorized to use the same track at the same time.

According to what a former Rock Island dispatcher wrote in a July 1980 Trains article, the term "lap" is derived from "lapse of authority" (not "overlapping authority").
 

johnsweetser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the seventh paragraph of the opening post, TAW
> wrote:
>
> >In train order operation, a lap of authority
> (overlapping authority - a lap in dispatcherspeak)
> involves more than one train authorized to use the
> same track at the same time.
>
> According to what a former Rock Island dispatcher
> wrote in a July 1980 Trains article, the term
> "lap" is derived from "lapse of authority" (not
> "overlapping authority").

Think about that for a minute:

lapse by itself means failure, or not enough. It doesn't mean too much.

Giving spatch the benefit of the doubt (unless maybe he was way younger than me), it must have been the editor.

TAW
>