Railroaders' Nostalgia > My Grandfathers SP L.A. to SLO Cycle

My grandfather was an SP conductor on the Coast division based out of San Luis Obispo.  His crew was Joe Taylor headend brakeman, Roy Ables rear man and all sorts of names on the engine.  From my end in L.A it was as follows:  75/90, 99/76 and 91/98.  From my end it was reversed I think.  Over the years I rode with him countless times and I'll never forget how people dressed back then.  Men wore suits and women always dressed with class.   I never dreamed I would be the hoghead on Amtrak's version of those trains.  Never once did I ever see an SP trainman out of uniform and never heard anyone gripe about having to wear a uniform hat.  Those were proud men.  Proud of their job AND THE UNIFORM THAT WENt WITH IT!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/16 16:55 by whistlepig.

whistlepig Wrote:
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> My grandfather was an SP conductor on the Coast
> division based out of San Luis Obispo. 

​Which brings up the question of how the jobs were allocated between the Coast trainmen and Los Angeles trainmen. Do you know how many total train crews
​protected the Lark, Daylight and Coast Mail; Coast as well as L.A.?  I know that San Joaquin enginemen protected these trains between LA-Santa Barbara and Coast enginemen protected
Santa Barbara-San Luis Obispo with their home terminal at SLO but I'm curious about the mileage allocation between the Coast and L.A. trainmen.

  From
> my end in L.A it was as follows:  75/90, 99/76
> and 91/98. 

​I believe that's correct for the SJ enginemen out of L.A.. This combination allowed a full rest at Santa Barbara. When there was only 99-98, you were forced to get an H.O.S.
​release at Santa Barbara and there was only one enginemen crew on that 7 day a week job, ugh. 
​With only 99-98 what was the arrangement for the trainmen? ​ ​ 
>
> Never once did I ever see an SP trainman out of
> uniform and never heard anyone gripe about having
> to wear a uniform hat.  Those were proud men. 
> Proud of their job AND THE UNIFORM THAT WENt WITH
> IT!

Thats a fact!

Charlie

 

Charlie, if Nudge would come back on TO, we would have that answer as he was local chairman in SLO and knew how it was done for mileage

whistlepig Wrote:
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> My grandfather was an SP conductor on the Coast
> division based out of San Luis Obispo.  His crew
> was Joe Taylor headend brakeman, Roy Ables rear
> man and all sorts of names on the engine.  From
> my end in L.A it was as follows:  75/90, 99/76
> and 91/98.  From my end it was reversed I
> think.  Over the years I rode with him countless
> times and I'll never forget how people dressed
> back then.  Men wore suits and women always
> dressed with class.   I never dreamed I would be
> the hoghead on Amtrak's version of those trains. 
> Never once did I ever see an SP trainman out of
> uniform and never heard anyone gripe about having
> to wear a uniform hat.  Those were proud men. 
> Proud of their job AND THE UNIFORM THAT WENt WITH
> IT!

What time frame are we talking about? No. 90 an No. 91, the Coast Mail, were formerly No. 71 and No. 72. The change happened in 1955. So are we talking '55 and beyond?

BCHellman Wrote:
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>
> What time frame are we talking about? No. 90 an
> No. 91, the Coast Mail, were formerly No. 71 and
> No. 72. The change happened in 1955. So are we
> talking '55 and beyond?

​My questions were about the year 1960 through the abandonment of 90-91 in 1965 followed 75-76 in 1968. My bad.
​My assumption is that after 75-76 came off leaving just 99-98 there were probably just two train crews, a Coast and a L.A. crew. But possibly there was
​a third crew because of the 221.8 mile schedule. Plus, there was a mileage imbalance. The Coast portion was longer than the L.A. mileage.  Brian Black would know.

Charlie
​

Talking around 1961-2 era.

I worked out of SLO in engine service in 1969. We still went on and off duty at the old roundhouse and there was a huge chalk board on the wall with painted areas showing what pools were what and the names of the crews written in chalk. It showed the SLO to Santa Barb pool freight, Santa Barbara local, Lompoc, Guadalupe and Surf turns. It also showed the helper pool to Margarita, King City Turn and the West freight pool. There was a small area that showed the long haul passenger out of the City but those were crews from SF.

With passenger  It still showed all the old passenger runs and train numbers but I never took a picture of it. The only passenger job we had was 98 & 99 left and it showed" Moose Martin" on one job and "Nuts & Bolts" Dillon on the other. Before 76 & 75 were pulled off, they held those runs, down on 76 and back on 99 on one job  and down on 98 and back on 75 on the other. When they cut the Lark off it left  just 98 & 99 but the jobs didn't pay the minimum wage per the union contract.. They were nick named "The Thin Wallet Jobs" and because those two hogheads were No. 1 & 2 that's the way they stayed.

From SLO to Santa Barbara the Coast engineers turned and came back to SLO. There was a time when the LA Division engineers worked from LA to Santa Barb and returned to LA. Then the San Joaquin enginemen took over that pool and gave the jobs they had in LA to the LA engineers.

Now to the trainmen. Because of the short time worked from SLO to LA the company combined the passenger jobs and ran through Santa Barb. Every time  a run was made it paid 100 miles from LA to Santa Barb and 119 miles from Santa Barb to SLO. The carrier and the union kept track of miles owed and regulated the pools accordingly. That is why sometime there would be an odd brakemen or conductor mixed into an LA run. The enginemans names you are seeing are one from LA to Santa Barb and one from Santa Barb to SLO.  Could you post any of those names? As the years passed, a lot of trainmen didn't keep their "Blue Surge" in shape or never got a new set. If a trainmen was called in SLO to fill a passenger and didn't have a uniform they were put in the "Penalty Box" for 24 hours and would lose a trip. I know the trainmen that worked 90 or 91 had a uniform for working passenger in one direction and bibs for working  90 or 91 the other.

When pool freight ran through in the 70s it was run on mileage. In passenger, Atk kept the old Thin Wallet Job for years until they finally got their own engine crews.


Nudge

Good to have you back, Nudge

I once worked the Starlight out of SLO early in the Amtrak era with the Swain Brothers (part of a railroad dynasty), VR and Dink. Dink had the seniority, but preferred to let his brother be the conductor. No finer men have I ever met. We were still using SP uniforms, but as I had recently transferred over from switching, I had to borrow one. The hat was about six sizes too small, so Victor told me to carry it around in my hand while I was going through the cars. Not having a hat was unthinkable... and a rules violation.

EO

hogheaded Wrote:
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> I once worked the Starlight out of SLO early in
> the Amtrak era with the Swain Brothers (part of a
> railroad dynasty), VR and Dink. Dink had the
> seniority, but preferred to let his brother be the
> conductor. No finer men have I ever met. We were
> still using SP uniforms, but as I had recently
> transferred over from switching, I had to borrow
> one. The hat was about six sizes too small, so
> Victor told me to carry it around in my hand while
> I was going through the cars. Not having a hat was
> unthinkable... and a rules violation.
>
> EO

You are certainly right about Vern and Dink. They were two of the nicest people anyone could work with.

As far as the San Joaquin enginemen..  When I came on board to the SP  Sam Zachary was number 1 .. when he retired the job went to Bob Ward, Joe "square deal" Ketchum, Eddie Platz.    The short turnaround was abolished and the SP worked out a deal with a 3 man pool.  it was Cipolla, Don Senior and Sprayerry.  Then 1986 came along and Amtrak hired their own people and that was the end of us handling Amtrak... 

SLOCONDR Wrote:
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> hogheaded Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I once worked the Starlight out of SLO early in
> > the Amtrak era with the Swain Brothers (part of
> a
> > railroad dynasty), VR and Dink. Dink had the
> > seniority, but preferred to let his brother be
> the
> > conductor. No finer men have I ever met. We
> were
> > still using SP uniforms, but as I had recently
> > transferred over from switching, I had to
> borrow
> > one. The hat was about six sizes too small, so
> > Victor told me to carry it around in my hand
> while
> > I was going through the cars. Not having a hat
> was
> > unthinkable... and a rules violation.
> >
> > EO
>
> You are certainly right about Vern and Dink. They
> were two of the nicest people anyone could work
> with.

There was one person that even Vern couldn't get along with, and that was Eli Brown when he was an Amtrak trainmaster.  If anyone's interested, I can tell you a funny story about the two of them.

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO

cewherry Wrote:
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> BCHellman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > What time frame are we talking about? No. 90 an
> > No. 91, the Coast Mail, were formerly No. 71
> and
> > No. 72. The change happened in 1955. So are we
> > talking '55 and beyond?
>
> ​My questions were about the year 1960 through
> the abandonment of 90-91 in 1965 followed 75-76
> in 1968. My bad.
> ​My assumption is that after 75-76 came off
> leaving just 99-98 there were probably just two
> train crews, a Coast and a L.A. crew. But possibly
> there was
> ​a third crew because of the 221.8 mile
> schedule. Plus, there was a mileage imbalance. The
> Coast portion was longer than the L.A. mileage.
>  Brian Black would know.
>
> Charlie

Charlie, I don't remember exactly how the miles were set up back then, but spnudge's post may answer some of your questions.  I worked as a passenger brakeman relatively few times between LA and SLO.  Most of my passenger activity on the Coast was as a Train Baggageman, which went west on 99 to Santa Barbara, and back the same day to LA on 98.

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO
> ​

103 miles LAUPT to Santa Barbara. There was always a 19 mile difference of miles from SB to SLO.   Brian you have to tell the story of Eli and Vern Swain it is a great story to share !                        hcond Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cewherry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BCHellman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > What time frame are we talking about? No. 90
> an
> > > No. 91, the Coast Mail, were formerly No. 71
> > and
> > > No. 72. The change happened in 1955. So are
> we
> > > talking '55 and beyond?
> >
> > ​My questions were about the year 1960
> through
> > the abandonment of 90-91 in
> 1965 followed 75-76
> > in 1968. My bad.
> > ​My assumption is that after 75-76 came off
> > leaving just 99-98 there were probably just two
> > train crews, a Coast and a L.A. crew. But
> possibly
> > there was
> > ​a third crew because of the 221.8 mile
> > schedule. Plus, there was a mileage imbalance.
> The
> > Coast portion was longer than the L.A. mileage.
> >  Brian Black would know.
> >
> > Charlie
>
> Charlie, I don't remember exactly how the miles
> were set up back then, but spnudge's post may
> answer some of your questions.  I worked as a
> passenger brakeman relatively few times between LA
> and SLO.  Most of my passenger activity on the
> Coast was as a Train Baggageman, which went west
> on 99 to Santa Barbara, and back the same day to
> LA on 98.
>
> Brian Black
> Castle Rock, CO
> > ​

   OK, here's the Vern Swain v. Eli Brown story:

   Eli Brown and Vern Swain need little introduction to a lot of folks that hang out on this board.  Vern Swain was an old head SP Coast Division passenger conductor, and was one of the nicest guys you ever want to meet.  Eli was a SP LA Division trainman who was made an ATM, and later was assigned as an Amtrak trainmaster.  When Vern and Eli crossed paths, it was like throwing two old tomcats in a barell, with the resultant scratching, snarling and clawing.
   On the morning in question, I was the conductor on an eastbound freight and we had just come in from Bakersfield. My caboose was sitting a few car lengths east of the Glendale depot as we waited for a track in the A yard..  Soon, the westbound Coast Daylight pulled up to make his Glendale station stop. After it they stopped,  I could see Eli strutting around the depot platform trying to look important.
I heard Vern call the engineer, Ed Platz; "Ed, when i tell you highball, put those jacks in run 8 and don't look back!"
   "OK Vern," Ed replied.  I could just picture a big grin spreading on Ed's face as he figured out what Vern had in mind.   Someone gave Eli a phone sign and pointed at the depot.  Eli went in the depot.  By now, Vern had his passengers loaded.
   "Hiball, Ed!"
   Platz must have held full independent on as he went to run 8.  About the time those two F40's started jumping up and down, Ed kicked the jam off, and I've never seen a passenger train take off so fast!
   Eli flew out of the depot giving wild stop signs, but no one was looking.  He spotted my caboose and bolted toward it.  Before he could get there, I flipped the channel selector to a dead channel. He grabbed the radio and started hollering at the train to stop.  Nautrally, no one answered.  "Its bad order, Eli. It quit about Palmdale."
   "OH S--T,!" he said.  He got off my caboose and walked slowly back to the depot, the picture of dejection.  By now, Amtrak was half-way to Burbank, Jct. Score one for the good guy!

   We could start a whole new thread with Eli stories on this board.  He retired shortly after I did in 2007, and just dropped off the face of the earth.  I don't think anyone has maintained contact with him.

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO