Railroaders' Nostalgia > Surprise! NOT getting hassled for suspicious activity.

September 10 2001. I was developing a reference map of the BNSF line between Seattle and Tacoma for Sound Transit. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1765687,1765737#1765737

After that gig, I would be doing the same for Seattle - Everett. The work included pictures in all directions at any place that emergency services could access the track and coordinates at those places. It involved driving into dead ends, behind industries, up to locked gates, and parking and walking to places that had access but no parking. I was also developing a track chart (schematic diagram of the tracks) and was taking pictures of signals, switches, bungalows, etc. for reference.

I had made it from Tacoma to Puyallup and decided to call it a day. It was getting to dark to do any more.

The next day, everything changed...except that I still had not finished the job. I decided to wait out the craziness for a few days. A few days turned into a week, then two. I had to go back to work and finish the job. Off I want.

So here I am in September, 2001 in ordinary clothes (no orange, no hardhat, just shirt, jacket, jeans, boots) with a camera, a handlheld GPS, and a small engineer's waterproof notebook. There was no official looking car, just my old Honda wagon. I had a lot of trepidation, one might say, as I went about my work. I kept looking over my shoulder, expecting cops or soldiers to start blazing away because I was suspicious, or at least disappeared for being a terrorist.

The surprise was, nobody noticed. Cops passed by while I was taking pictures of bridges. Trains passed by while I was at the end of a trail leading from an adjacent street to the track. The next summer, on the Seattle - Everett part of the work, I was the only person on the beach at Meadowdale Park, between Everett and Seattle, that was wearing boots and work clothes. I was taking pictures and making notes of the pedestrian bridge under BNSF between the park and the beach. Nobody noticed.

Throughout all of this, I read daily about railfans being hassled, questioned, and even taken in for interrogation. Even now, 16 years later, it is still happening. I just finished similar work for the Point Defiance Bypass between Tacoma and Nisqually (WA). I thought, I'm in for it now. The track runs through Fort Lewis (or, in modern terms, JBLM). I was expecting MPs or Special Forces, or at least a passing sergeant (as I was taking pictures and taking notes at the main gate) questioning me. For me, nothing. I was way more suspicious than any railfan could be.

TAW

I was in the Folkston/Waycross area one very foggy morning. I pulled off the highway on a drive that crossed the tracks. The road had a gate on the opposite side of the tracks. After about :30, a pickup came out of the gate. He was a Sheriff's Deputy heading to work. I told him I was photographing trains. He basically rolled his eyes and said I was welcome to use the spot.

Tom, you have never looked like a terrorist of any genre.

Well it now been long enough and I have retired but during the 1st gulf war in 1991 I took a couple of weeks vacation from my regular job with another railroad to assist in the start up of the Wichita , Tillman and Jackson and on the 1st trip south out of Altus OK we had to pick up 10 empty anhydrous ammonia cars in Fredrick OK. If you all remember the nation was on high alert and the local PD in Fredrick was on high alert for any suspicious activity. The Conductor ( One of the Companies Owners) was driving a vehicle ahead of the train and so he beat me to Fredrick and While he was lacing up the cars and checking had brakes the local PD showed up comeplete with a police dog and he tried to explain he was the owner of the railroad and was not up tony thing nefarious, remember this was the days before safety vests and other gear and the owner was a 60 year railroader of English and French decent. So after about 30 minutes where he explained the train would be along I arrived with the train and pulled up to the switch where the officer had the owner sitting on the hood of his car with the dog guarding him. He then advised the officer again he was not up to no good see here is the train and then pointed up at the locomotive to me the Italian dark haired mobster on the engine and said if anyone was up to no good it was that guy. At that point after securing the engine I climbed down and talked to the Owner and the PD we then had a good laugh and we made the pick-up and were on our way again. Not sure what I would have done if the owner was taken to the local jail as the start-up was about 2 weeks early and the company had not had enough time to get radios in the vehicles and hand hand sets and we were old school making the pick ups with had signals. So out there in Western Oklahoma there was police officer and his dog who were being on guard. Startups were always an adventure and this one was no exception but on other trips north and south during those 1st few weeks the PD in Fredrick would then always give us a roll-by and a wave of come by when we picked or set out cars in Fredrick

At the time of the 9/11 attacks, we had a contract for structural repairs for the upper deck roadway at one of the terminals at O'Hare. One of our younger structural engineers had to measure and photograph all of the planters and other stuff on the sidewalk. BTW, the kid is of Middle Eastern descent and was actually born in Pakistan.

Surprisingly, he spent two whole days (after the attack!) doing his work and was not approached even once.

I'm sure he definitely did to upper management and his direct managers during his career lol

CCDeWeese Wrote:
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> Tom, you have never looked like a terrorist of any
> genre.

Posted from iPhone

Detroit surprises me on the question too. There are tons of access roads and ramps. I get that they may be open because vehicle traffic is too regular to always lock them, but there aren't even signs posted.

Then, in the second photo, I saw three people standing on the track on the bridge as the Amtrak train came around the corner, moments before this picture was taken.

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great detroit scenes

dan Wrote:
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> great detroit scenes

Sad Detroit scenes. All too common, unfortunately. There are a lot of good things happening in the Motor City, but it's going to be a long, slow slog.

MC
Muskegon, Michigan

To TAW's original point: I completely identify with all he said.

I have many times had to work in plants and offices on IT projects after regular business hours. It was always a little nerve-wracking. When was some night shift production foreman or night office staff person going to suddenly appear, panic at seeing me, forget the general manager's memo to staff about my work, and call the cops?

I never had to explain myself to the police. But I did have to get on the phone with a general manager at about midnight one time to verify that it was really me who was there in the office (we had had been through several meetings, so he knew me and could verify). Even so, it took a few minutes on the phone by him after we talked to calm the staffer down, and convince the person that I did indeed belong there at that odd hour. I got no flak from the incident; he was a great guy and understood and completely supported what our team was doing. This was all in a pre-Internet, pre-VPN era of IT that required a lot more on-site work for new implementations. It would likely be different today for many reasons.

MC
Muskegon, Michigan

Several years ago I worked for an Asst Supt who had a terrible temper, liked to do things on his own and then leave town or hide once he got found out. Of course leaving innocents to take the blame! Coming into work on a Monday he asked me back to his office. The mission was for me to listen to 24 hours plus of tape to determine who ran an unauthorized extra train. Folks down the line were pissed due to the engine consist being stolen for a train sitting at a major terminal.

So off I went. This poor multi track machine had seen better days and was notable for the days when it really worked. Thankfully there was only one telephone involved and that was of an asst. chief dispatcher. With my other duties, it took me 5 days to get all the information needed and recorded. As I listened and listened and listened what became obvious was that our boy had used engines off a disbanded empty grain to run an eastbound train that was not authorized. The engines were supposed to have been picked up by the next eastbound and taken to the terminal where a powerless train was waiting. A little after 24 hours had passed, questions started coming about where were the engines and who authorized the extra train.

The longer I listened the funnier things got as the region transportation office didn't like the asst. supt involved and neither did any of the asst. chief dispatchers. Lots of comments back and forth about too many chiefs and not enough indians. Thankfully late on day 5 the project was done. The manager in question was off that weeekend, so Monday morning I brought him the cassette. On the way out I commented "you aren't going to like this". Later that day the shouting match between him and one of the asst chief dispatchers could be heard in the other end of the building.

jointauthority Wrote:
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> I'm sure he definitely did to upper management and
> his direct managers during his career lol
>
> CCDeWeese Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tom, you have never looked like a terrorist of
> any
> > genre.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Yeah, I'm pretty sure a certain CSX CEO has a playing card with TAW's face on it.

Nick