Railroaders' Nostalgia > U25B's what were they really like?

Hi,

I have been scouring the internet and this forum for the people's perspective of what it was like to work and operate a U25B locomotive for the purpose of re-creating it in a simulator. I have found a range of useful information but feel I'm still lacking or the information I have found needs more explanation and I was really hoping some people could come forwards and share their experiences that they had with these machines, particularly mention anything you think that could be simulated.

For example; I understand that ride in these locomotives was fairly bouncy. But just how bouncy? Would your body sway and bob over relatively good track, or just harsh track? I've heard that it would take considerable time to load, just how long? Did the load really drop off to zero when you would throttle down say a couple of notches and then climb up again? I also heard that you would open up the throttle and nothing would happen, you'd put another notch in and suddenly it would leap forward like a scalded cat?

I'm very keen to recreate the U25B as best I can but I can only do it with knowledge of the people in the know I would appreciate anything you can share. Thank you.

Best,

FDL-16

I don't know where you are but you would benefit a great deal from a visit to the Southern California Railway Museum (former OERM) in Perris, California where they have an operating U25B, SP 3100. You can run the thing for $300/hour in their "Run One" program.

http://www.oerm.org/run-one-program/

They were like their big brothers (still in the planning stage). They rattled and banged. The GE controls on the SP had a 16 notch throttle that was longer than a who%$s dream. It was a pain in the ass because it got in the way. The only way you could make a drop was to use the Generator Field switch. (which was not good for the engine). If you touched the throttle while running, it would drop its load and then slowly come back. Made for a hell of train handling and slack action. You could lose almost 9 to 10 minutes running time between Arlight, Sudden, Jaluma and Concepcion. We used stretch braking from SLO to SBA and even then you lost the time. Their wheel slip controls sucked. If it was back in the consist and the wheel slipped, sometimes it would not unload and turn into a rail grinder.

If you were pulling they rode okay. They did get a side to side thing but it was nose on one side and tail on the other. You had the nose pointing to your right and the rear pointing to the left then reverse. It could really get to oscillating so bad you thought it was going to jump the track. Then you had to tie the train down, get rid of the throttle and start all over again.

There big brothers were the same when they showed up but had an 8 notch throttle. They really rattled because the area behind the engineer & fireman was a big empty room where a steam generator would go.

No, when you were called to work you would have either a Cadillac or a Washing Machine.


Nudge

Nudge -

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "their big brothers"?

Thanks

JWL

The bigger U-33s. 6 axle motors. They weighted in at 419,000 pounds. (Its been a long time. I think that's right.) The old 25s weighted 267,000 pounds.


Nudge

I worked on their big brothers on SCL(U-25-C's) they were just like what Nudge said also. Especially. the wheel slip and throttle. These also didn't like to make transition either, so above 25 mph they quit loading. This could have been related to the wheel slip also. Sam

Which simulator are you thinking of making them for?

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know where you are but you would benefit a
> great deal from a visit to the Southern California
> Railway Museum (former OERM) in Perris, California
> where they have an operating U25B, SP 3100. You
> can run the thing for $300/hour in their "Run One"
> program.
>
> http://www.oerm.org/run-one-program/

I actually had the sounds recorded from this unit at OERM by a friend of mine, I reside in the UK but plan to visit OERM myself at some point. It's a pity it doesn't have the original KC99 control stand, that would have been very helpful here.

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They were like their big brothers (still in the
> planning stage). They rattled and banged. The GE
> controls on the SP had a 16 notch throttle that
> was longer than a who%$s dream. It was a pain in
> the ass because it got in the way. The only way
> you could make a drop was to use the Generator
> Field switch. (which was not good for the engine).
> If you touched the throttle while running, it
> would drop its load and then slowly come back.
> Made for a hell of train handling and slack
> action. You could lose almost 9 to 10 minutes
> running time between Arlight, Sudden, Jaluma and
> Concepcion. We used stretch braking from SLO to
> SBA and even then you lost the time. Their wheel
> slip controls sucked. If it was back in the
> consist and the wheel slipped, sometimes it would
> not unload and turn into a rail grinder.
>
> If you were pulling they rode okay. They did get a
> side to side thing but it was nose on one side and
> tail on the other. You had the nose pointing to
> your right and the rear pointing to the left then
> reverse. It could really get to oscillating so bad
> you thought it was going to jump the track. Then
> you had to tie the train down, get rid of the
> throttle and start all over again.
>
> There big brothers were the same when they showed
> up but had an 8 notch throttle. They really
> rattled because the area behind the engineer &
> fireman was a big empty room where a steam
> generator would go.
>
> No, when you were called to work you would have
> either a Cadillac or a Washing Machine.
>
>
> Nudge


Thank you Nudge, very insightful.

If it rattled and banged, I would hazard a guess then that the wind would howl through cracks in the cab door/window seals too at speed?

What was it like using the 16 notch throttle, would you actually use the half notches or completely bypass them? Was it hard to move the lever, did it make a loud ratchet type notch when you notched or did it sound similar to the EMD throttle?

You mentioned that if you touched the throttle whilst running, it would drop its load then slowly come back. Is this only when throttling down, or even when notching up? By "drop it's load" I assume that basically means the ammeter dropped to zero then would climb back to whatever you wanted the engine to achieve, if so how long would that take, a few second, 30 seconds, 5 mins?


BoostedFridge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which simulator are you thinking of making them
> for?

TS2018

A retired Santa Fe engineer and friend told me this story. He was running those one day with a GE man riding with him to assess locomotive performance. He asked the engineer what he thought of the U25B engines. The engineer told him "just wipe the deck clean and start all over".

Very limited exposure in early Conrail days (1978 - 80) riding some that were admittedly worn out and unloved, but a few observations:

The seemed tinny and "cheap" as compared to an EMD or even an Alco Century. Think more like RS-3.

Not as easy to get on as an EMD but better than an Alco Century

Noisy, rattley, and kind of a 2nd class simplified atmosphere like it was designed by a high school class.

Engineers complaining about the throttle (I never pulled a throttle on one), slow loading, temperamental and re-sets hard to find or get to.

Poor ride quality, my memory is like riding in a tin can. Far different than an EMD GP 35 / 38 / 40 but did not have the rocking sway experienced on the Centuries where it sometimes felt like you were going to tip over, more a banging, thud wiggle.

Slippery, especially in getting bound up in curves with tonnage.

Crews would generally pick EMD - ANYTHING first choice, then Alco with GE dead last.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/18 07:04 by train1275.

Funny story that was told to me by Mike Wikman who was an engineer on the Lackawanna and
then an engineer and Road Foreman Engines on the E-L.

He was working as a fireman when the company was getting it's first GE's. On his own he
went up to the GE factory, talked his way in and got a tour of the plant and a detailed
explanation of the new GE's, including the 16 notch throttle.

On his first trip firing them he had an old head engineer. It was night time. Mike was extolling
the virtues of the new GE's. Once they were out on the road, the engineer said these new engines
"don't pull worth s***". Mike asked him what notch he was in. "I've been in 8 for quite some time"
came the answer. Mike replied "You have 8 more to work with". They began to pull much better.

If you're looking for a live one to visit, keep in mind that the museum in Danbury CT has a New Haven one as well.

I saw a lot of them on PC and Conrail in upstate NY, and the crews uniformly hated them. Interesting to hear the complaints here about loading, since PC and CR seemed to keep them primarily on local service by 1975 or so.

I also got to see one of them burst into flames on a Guilford train in the early 1980s. I'll have to scan those photos one of these days. Engine fires seemed to be a common thing, but I'm not sure how you'd include that in a simulator.

I have to add my 2 cents about U 25s. My question is why are you interested in a u25 to build a simulator? Along with Nudge and others have spent many hours on U 25s. Have to add there was always a fuel smell In the cab. Because there was a fuel pressure gauge on the rear panel . The units would smoke, lots if wheel slip, and the aggravating throttle with the 16 notches. Guess am like the rest of the people on here these units were junk and not ok NE tear was shed when they were scrapped.

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Yeah, I forgot about that fuel oil smell. Thanks.

Back when the U25's were in service, I was on an airplane and I was chatting with my seatmate, and he revealed he worked for GE. When he asked me what I did, i told him I was a conductor for the Southern Pacific. He immediately exclaimed, "I didn't have anything to do with those locomotives!"
Evidently, they weren't thought of too highly even by GE.

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO

SP must have thought they were junk too as they were the first to be stored in business down turns

The Western Pacific U30Bs were just as bad--rode something awful and wouldn't run worth a damn.

wpamtk Wrote:
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> The Western Pacific U30Bs were just as bad--rode
> something awful and wouldn't run worth a damn.

WP had the U30B's ballasted up to 289,000 lbs which is probably a bit more then the springs on those Blombergs could handle!

Not related to the U25 exactly as IC only had ten U33C's and a handful of U30B's, but I asked an old head aboard and SD40A one night about the GE's which were long gone by 1989. His reply was on tape...

"Goddamned old junkers. Boy were they a pain in the ass!"

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/18 16:59 by MaryMcPherson.

By the time I started firing at Emporia, the U-25''s were about done, but we still had several classes of 1960's era GE's which weren't much different. They all had a turbo pressure gauge on the back wall, and it was pretty common to see it reading "0".

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