Railroaders' Nostalgia > Questions about cabooses, waycars, crummies, and hacks.

Whatever you choose to call them, "cabooses" had an important purpose in their day........providing the rear-end crew a place to ride between stations and keep an eye on the train in case smoke from a hotbox might be detected. Most carried the conductor and at least one brakeman......maybe more in earlier days. I have heard that cabooses on many eastern railroads were permanently assigned to a conductor. Wherever he went, his caboose went with him. I do not think the Santa Fe used them that way........as far as I can remember, they just grabbed the next waycar in the line and the crew used it. Maybe Lance Garrels can confirm my suspicion or tell me I'm full of cr*p. I would also like to hear about the "permanent assignment" idea, as to whether it's right or wrong for whatever railroads. One other question is the "really old" use of a cupola-mounted signal system for getting attention of the locomotive crew. I have seen such on old Santa Fe crummies but wonder under that conditions they were used. Lance may not be old enough to remember that one.

Answer to part of your question...

http://old.atsfrr.org/resources/Sandifer/WigWag/Index.htm

I used to have a very interesting book on this topic in my collection, "The Railroad Caboose," by William Knapke. It's still in print apparently, and as I recall it offered lots of interesting information and great stories about caboose life. Knapke was a boomer who began working for the railroads around the turn of the century.

jdw3460 Wrote:
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> Most carried the
> conductor and at least one brakeman......maybe
> more in earlier days.

One of whom was the flagman. His job was strictly to protect the rear of the train, which involved throwing off fusees behind the train at 10 minute intervals when moving at half or less of track speed or getting off and hiking back with flag, fusees, torpedoes and lantern at night to stop following trains.


> I have heard that cabooses
> on many eastern railroads were permanently
> assigned to a conductor. Wherever he went, his
> caboose went with him. I do not think the Santa
> Fe used them that way........as far as I can
> remember, they just grabbed the next waycar in the
> line and the crew used it.

Assigned cabooses were normal everywhere until the advent of pool cabooses, which came at different times to various railroads. That required a union agreement with the conductors and trainmen. Before that, the conductor effectively owned the caboose and fixed it up as desired. Since they spent more time in the caboose than at home, they were often really nicely appointed, including curtains and furniture. The crew stayed in the caboose at the away from home terminal. Deadheading a train crew required deadheading the caboose - no passenger train, bus, taxi, etc. Crew change at an intermediate terminal required changing the caboose. Before diesels running over the entire trip, steam engines were generally changed at the same points, so it was no big deal.

Assigned locals often retained assigned cabooses until the end of cabooses. The advent of pool cabooses came with the advent of the need to house the train crew at the away from home terminal (which had already been required for engine crews). In a way, crew management was easier because the need to deadhead the caboose was eliminated, but if the Chief didn't pay attention to caboose management, he might balance the crews just to find out that he had no caboose for them to work in. That same problem arose with the advent of rear end devices replacing cabooses. The instant cure for that was same day airfreight of rear end devices all over the railroad instead of someone putting in the time and effort of planning the movement in advance (that activity was considered a waste of time...and still is). Where I worked, the ability to same day air freight rear end devices in lieu of planning was considered an advantage. It was only money and none of it was mine.

TAW

Thanks trainjunkie, colehour, and TAW. I had no doubt that the requested info rested somewhere in TO. And nothing even hit the fan. ;-}

I'll add a bit of trivia. Way into the era of pool cabooses, we still often called train crews a car. When I would go over crews with the caller at the beginning of the shift, we'd start with cars in town and men on each car (were any of the trainmen or the conductor on the crew marked off). We would then go into cars on the road, which way they were going (toward the away or home terminal), when they would be back, and if anybody on that crew was due to mark off on return (vacation, etc.). We often referred to the caboose as the cage (abbreviation of ape cage) and once in a while, the clown car (referring to the car in a circus that drove around the ring with clowns jumping on and off).

TAW

TAW Wrote:
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> I'll add a bit of trivia. Way into the era of pool
> cabooses, we still often called train crews a car.
> When I would go over crews with the caller at the
> beginning of the shift, we'd start with cars in
> town and men on each car (were any of the trainmen
> or the conductor on the crew marked off). We would
> then go into cars on the road, which way they were
> going (toward the away or home terminal), when
> they would be back, and if anybody on that crew
> was due to mark off on return (vacation, etc.). We
> often referred to the caboose as the cage
> (abbreviation of ape cage) and once in a while,
> the clown car (referring to the car in a circus
> that drove around the ring with clowns jumping on
> and off).
>
> TAW

Your reference to the "ape cage" and "clown car" nearly put me on the floor. :-]]]]

Here's another bit of "hack humor". When I was a kid, I frequented the two ATSF stations in Winfield where my Dad worked. One morning, the "rock train" from the Moline quarry was slowly entering the yard and was, as usual, blocking Main Street right by the station. The local Santa Fe porter, who was constantly being tricked, bothered, etc. by the rock train conductor when he was in town, decided to play a trick on the conductor. As the caboose approached, with the conductor (as always) hanging on the rear end, the porter ran out of the station screaming and waving a razor in the air, acting like he was going for the conductor. The old conductor saw him coming and just grabbed him by the back of his bib overalls and held him in the air right across Main street and then dropped him in the weeds on the other side. Horns were honking, people yelling, and the poor porter didn't know what to do but run and hide. It took a while for him to live that one down. I don't think things like that happen on railroads anymore.
Joe

When this late 60's shot was taken at the new Torrance station in Torrance, CA, each JOB was assigned a caboose.
JB

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"Flatwheel" (unkindly named because he had a polio caused limp from childhood)spent fifty years in train service for the CPR , many with his own assigned caboose.

Always working wayfreights by choice, he was a collector. A visit to a sawmill could render a pocket full of nails used in securing lumber loads to flat cars. After a trip, he would usually show off his prizes of the day to the office clerks and then sell the nails and other metals to a scrapyard.

He had another trait, before every trip, he would ask the freight office for a pencil which they would oblige him with. A clerk with almost as much service as the conductor wondered what he did with several decades worth of pencils.

Following his retirement, the car department found one of the storage areas within the caboose stacked with hundreds of pencils.

I started working on the Santa Fe in 1965. I was a brakeman. The Middle Division and the Eastern Division crews had a way car assigned to the conductor in the chain gang. When I started there were 33 or 34 conductors in the chain gang. The switchman would switch out the Eastern Division way car and put the Middle Division way car on the train.

Of course this all changed when they had enough way cars that re-built at West Wichita, Kansas shops.

I have a listed of the way cars that the Middle Division way cars. They were not in any order. They were in the 500 series, some in the 1600 series, 1700 series, 1800 series, 1900 series and a few in the 2200 series.

Each terminal had two way car tracks, one would be for the way cars that arrived and one track for the crews based there for there out bound trip.

If I come across the list, I will post it.

One other note, the Coast Lines started using the older Tuscan red way cars as a pool car. Of course, the crew got a small payment for giving up their assigned way car. I do not remember what year this happen. I am thinking around 1966.

The assigned cabooses were eliminated on the Coast lines of Santa Fe about 1965 or so. In lieu of their assigned caboose, trainmen were given an allowance called "pool caboose pay", amounting to about $1.50 per trip. Twenty years later, the caboose was eliminated completely. The trainmen continued to claim the pool caboose pay, which, by then was about $3.00 per trip. Some sharp timekeeper began denying the pool caboose pay because there was no caboose. Curiously enough, the carriers would have settled by blending the pool caboose allowance into the daily rates, but the trainmen's union pursued their contentions to the labor board, which ruled that there could not be a pool caboose allowance without pooled cabooses.
Just an interesting side note about the caboose, hack, crummy, waycar, or whatever you called them.

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

I know on the Wabash when cabooses were assigned, the assignments would be posted with the car number and the name of the conductor. Later, when this practice stopped, a Wabash conductor friend of mine would get hot (an understatement) when he got a car that needed repair (broken items inside the car) or was trashed or filthy. IIRC, he would file a formal complaint and/or refuse to utilize the car.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/18 14:45 by wabash2800.