Railroaders' Nostalgia > A Red-Faced Road Foreman

   Back in the early days of the Union Pacific takeover of the Southern Pacific, it it was a somewhat tumultuous period for the operating guys from both railroads.  There was a school of thought among certain UP officials that they were going to "get rid of all us SP cowboys."
   There was a certain Road Foreman of Engines, we'll call him "S" that was a member of this anti-SP philosophy.  One afternoon, he was assigned to ride a westbound officers special out of Yermo, California. The power was a couple of EMD SD70M's. This train would be running on the BNSF from Daggett to West Riverside, and the track speed for passenger between Barstow and Oro Grande was 79 mph. Mr S is going to be running the engine, and he's going to show all and sundry how a real engineer handles the train.  79 mph, ohboyoboy!
   Well, the train clears Barstow, and he let's her rip!  At 73 mph, "Pssssst!" he gets a penalty application, and everything comes to a screeching halt!  As a remender, the power was two SD70M's. He scratches his head, resets everything, and away they go.  When they got back up to 73, the same thing happens.  He get's on the radio and reports to someone that they get a penalty application at 73 mph for no apparent reason.  Something must be bad order.
  Whoever he was talking to verified the unit number and said, "Mr. S, that unit is a freight locomotive! That's the overspeed going in! It"s just doing its job!'
   There was a long silence.  He was a long time living that down.  It kind of tells you the esteem he was held in when no one else in that cab clued him in.  He later got involved in some other scrape that forced him back to seniority.  He finished out his career on a yard engine an embittered man.

Having lived through a few adventures like this myself, I always wondered what it was that made some officers feel like they knew everything and were afraid to ask questions because it was a sign of weakness.  I remember riding behind a couple of UP GP40Xs on a customer trip from Council Bluffs to Los Angeles.  Over that same territory you describe, we actually got up to 79-80 MPH according to the speedometer in the business car I was riding.  The next day back in Los Angeles I heard that the two units were bad order at East Los Angeles with all the traction motors burned up.  Apparently there was no mechanism for the penalty application on these units and the officer in charge of the train made sure they were toast by exceeding their capability.

It's true pride cometh before a fall.

Posted from Android

A good rule of thumb for running the Business Cars:  "It's Either Your Best Trip or Your Last Trip"!

Working the Palmdale Cutoff, on a Los Angeles Turn, I had fromer D&RGW Road Foreman Ted Lewis ride with me from West Colton to Bakersfield. Ted was one of the few RFE that was actually quite a good engineer. Last I heard, he had moved from Green Valley, Arizona to Mesquite, Nevada and passed away there. This was about five years ago.

HardYellow Wrote:
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> Working the Palmdale Cutoff, on a Los Angeles
> Turn, I had fromer D&RGW Road Foreman Ted Lewis
> ride with me from West Colton to Bakersfield. Ted
> was one of the few RFE that was actually quite a
> good engineer. Last I heard, he had moved from
> Green Valley, Arizona to Mesquite, Nevada and
> passed away there. This was about five years ago.

   Hey Paul, sorry to hear about his passing.  I wasn't aware of it.  He was LA Division Superintendent for a time when I was UTU Local Chairman for the LA-Bakersfield guys.  I learned early on that if one of my people got written up for a rule violation, the best policy was to let him cool off for va day or two, and then I could usually cut a deal or get it tossed altogether.
   When on the "Grande," he was an RFE at Minturn with Tennessee Pass being part of his territory, so you weren't going to BS him about grade territory rsailroading.

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO

I was riding the cab of a CSX office car train years ago with an RFE in the right hand seat. Allowable speed was 79 but, he kept it no higher than 75-77. He told me there were too many eyes on the speedometer in the theater car.

CW

Neutron-Don Wrote:
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> A good rule of thumb for running the Business
> Cars:  "It's Either Your Best Trip or Your Last
> Trip"!

Posted from iPhone

Upon rereading the initial post, one word kept popping into my mind -
hubris ...excessive pride or self-confidence.
...Lorenzo

Some people go into management because they think they can make a difference and some go into management so they can have power.

PHall Wrote:
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> Some people go into management because they think
> they can make a difference and some go into
> management so they can have power.

...which also applies to politics...and some career choices.

TAW

TAW Wrote:
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> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Some people go into management because they
> think
> > they can make a difference and some go into
> > management so they can have power.
>
> ...which also applies to politics...and some
> career choices.
>
> TAW

It also applies to Police.

I knew a guy who was road foreman for the D&RGW narrow gauge lines in the 1960's.  He told me he took the job for the steady paycheck.  He worked out of Durango and dispite having a seniority date of 1948, he lived in the land of the fountain of youth, and there were lots of old heads ahead of him.  He was raising a family and was tired of being cut off every winter.  In 1963, the D&RGW began to heavilly promote the Silverton Branch and decided they needed a road foreman in Durango, so he took the job.

In the 1970's had been been transferred to Minturn on Tennessee Pass and was fed up with the whole management thing, and went back into engine service, retiring in Alamosa.

radar Wrote:
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> TAW Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > PHall Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Some people go into management because they
> > think
> > > they can make a difference and some go into
> > > management so they can have power.
> >
> > ...which also applies to politics...and some
> > career choices.
> >
> > TAW
>
> It also applies to Police.

Earlk Wrote:
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> I knew a guy who was road foreman for the D&RGW
> narrow gauge lines in the 1960's.  He told me he
> took the job for the steady paycheck.  He worked
> out of Durango and dispite having a seniority date
> of 1948, he lived in the land of the fountain of
> youth, and there were lots of old heads ahead of
> him.  He was raising a family and was tired of
> being cut off every winter.  In 1963, the D&RGW
> began to heavilly promote the Silverton Branch and
> decided they needed a road foreman in Durango, so
> he took the job.
>
> In the 1970's had been been transferred to Minturn
> on Tennessee Pass and was fed up with the whole
> management thing, and went back into engine
> service, retiring in Alamosa.
>
> radar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TAW Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > PHall Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Some people go into management because they
> > > think
> > > > they can make a difference and some go into
> > > > management so they can have power.
> > >
> > > ...which also applies to politics...and some
> > > career choices.
> > >
> > > TAW
> >
> > It also applies to Police.

I’ve known more than one RFE or “Travler” that got fed up with the company BS and de-horned themselves and took seniority. One was the man that qualified me and I was one of his guys assigned to him (on his list), he was a good man to work for and he was square with everybody. I knew another that did the same thing, both were cut-in Hogs and good guys.
OTOH there was one that was a RFE for over 40 years that was a terrible engineer and a prick, to trainmen especially. Everyone would fornicate with that idiot every chance we got.

Posted from iPhone

Ted is still alive and well owns home in both places and travels between them 

Good story, but the issues with the GP-40x's are suspect at best.  Three of the units were geared 59/18, and three were geared 66/20.  They were designed to allow 90MPH and were used regularly on passenger specials and Amtrak 5 and 6 at that speed, without issue.  Been there, done that.

RoadForeman Wrote:
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> Good story, but the issues with the GP-40x's are
> suspect at best.  Three of the units were geared
> 59/18, and three were geared 66/20. 

Impossible. Remember that EMD gear ratios, prior to AC Traction Motors, must add up to a total of 77 teeth. Thus, a gear ration with a 20 tooth pinion gear, would have had an axle "Bull" gear with 57 teeth. For what it's worth, the largest axle "Bull" gear was 65 teeth, for the 12 tooth pinion "extra slow speed" gear ration option, and the so-called pinion gear was too small to be an actual "pinion gear", so the 12 teeth were machined directly into the end of the armature shaft. We always found it funny when a "new man" in the shop attempted to remove that small 12 tooth pinion gear.

They were
> designed to allow 90MPH and were used regularly on
> passenger specials and Amtrak 5 and 6 at that
> speed, without issue.  Been there, done that.

That was always my understanding as well.  However, quoting two sources-the book Union Pacific 1977-1980 by George R. Cockle, page 184; and The Streamliner Magazine, Volume 6, Number 2, page 4.  Both sources cite the 66/20 ratio with the D87X traction motor under the 9000-9001-9002 as delivered.  The 9003-9004-9005 supposedly had the 59/18 gears with the D87Y traction motor.  Additionally, reference is made to an upgrade program in 1981 that changed the 9003-9004-9005 to 66/20 gears along with reduction in wheel diameter from 42" to a more standard 40".  I'm just the messenger here! 

RoadForeman Wrote:
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> That was always my understanding as well. 
> However, quoting two sources-the book Union
> Pacific 1977-1980 by George R. Cockle, page 184;
> and The Streamliner Magazine, Volume 6, Number 2,
> page 4.  Both sources cite the 66/20 ratio with
> the D87X traction motor under the 9000-9001-9002
> as delivered.  The 9003-9004-9005 supposedly had
> the 59/18 gears with the D87Y traction motor. 
> Additionally, reference is made to an upgrade
> program in 1981 that changed the 9003-9004-9005 to
> 66/20 gears along with reduction in wheel diameter
> from 42" to a more standard 40".  I'm just the
> messenger here! 

OK, however the larger the axle (bull) gear the SLOWER the speed. Thus, someone must have miscalculated the traction motor RPM, relative to a "66/20" gear ratio, regardless of the model of the traction motor. Maybe Mr. Cockle made an error, as there was really no such ratio as a "66/20". 

One of the few job tasks of an RFE nowdays is to look at the video of the inside cab cameras. One day the RFE pulled me in his office. Unless it is something serious, the dirty tatic is to wait a couple weeks as trips run together and you may not recall. Wanted to know why I did not get off the ground to do a roll by of a loaded grain train. To his dislike, I went out, got my timebook and came right back to him. I discovered the trip in question. Showing me the video, I brought up the fact that for one: there was an active high wind warning at the time which icluded my train as i had empty containers on top. Second, it was raining and third, the train was stopped on a bridge.
The dude knew I had him and began glamming into being safe and all that. This guy was horrible. Told crews we could not use hot plates on the eng as it was an electronic deviice. Even the Supf Operating Pratcies had to step in and correct him on that.
Thankfully he is gone, up north as a trainmaster and has become someone else headache.

PHall Wrote:
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> Some people go into management because they think
> they can make a difference and some go into
> management so they can have power.

Yeah and they try to throw there weight onto everyone and sooner or later payback happens when they can't break an employee, had that happen a few times that one store director threw his hands up because I never gave into his Control Freak ways!