Eastern Railroad Discussion > Coal plants and the decision on mercury

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has issued new rules about the allowable levels of mercury in coal burning plant stack gas. The result wil be a slowdown in the closing of coal fired electric plants, so coal trains will still roll.

To be clear, this won't change the cost disadvantage coal experiences. And, power plants are unlikely to rip out scrubbers. But some marginal plants may continue operating

One clear beneficiary is Murray Energy, which operates mines in WV KY OH IL IN and UT


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-28/mercury-limits-on-coal-plants-no-longer-appropriate-epa-says

Posted from Android

That’s really great news seeing that mercury causes brain damage, learning disabilities and other birth defects in children, among other harm. Coal power plants in this country are the largest single man-made source of mercury pollutants, which enters the food chain through fish and other items that people consume. So great to see such progress being made in this country. And we’ll still have coal trains to photograph! Sounds like a win-win to me........

The EPA determined that the cost benefit analysis used to define the "cost" of removing mercury from the stack gas was disproportionate to the "benefit" from fewer mercury related medical conditions.

The current EPA acting administrator was once a lobbyist for Murrary Energy, the plaintiff in this proceeding.,

I;m as interested in seeing coal trains roll as the next guy, but I'm pretty sure the impact will be minimal.  Many of the plants affected are older, and on borrowed time.  With coal steadily losing to gas and wind, the cost per kWh out the door will determine which plants stick around.
 

Making The health of our children part of a cost benefit analysis equation is dubious at best, especially when the folks standing to gain from the decision have monetary benefits from it.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/18 09:56 by DJ-12.

DJ-12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Making The health of our children part of a cost
> benefit analysis equation is dubious at best,
> especially when the folks standing to gain from
> the decision have monetary benefits from it.
>
> Posted from iPhone

The Bloomberg link goes into some detail about how the decision was determined.
 

Seriously what's worse The Mercury in the air, fish or, Agent Orange in the genes for generations to come, this is all
I'm saying on this.

Ed Stewart
Jacksonville, FL

We like to point our U.S. fingers at other 3rd world countries and say "LOOK!  TOTALLY CORRUPT!!" and then laugh at how incompetent their civil rules, laws and management is, due to the people in charge.

Thus, I point out this fact from the original post:

"The current EPA acting administrator was once a lobbyist for Murrary Energy, the plaintiff in this proceeding."

And now the world can point the finger at us.  This is not the United States I was raised in--it's becoming a 2nd world nation under this Administration.  This is how incompetence and corrupton begin, when rule of law is overlooked for personal, or associated, gain.  Clearly, the above fact represents a total "conflict of interest" that should carry extremely heavy consideration in any such ruling.

"I pledge allegiance, to my friends, of the United States of America.  And to the republic, from which they gain, a divided nation, corrupt, diviisible, with liberty and justice for those in control."

 

I was in Cuba a few weeks ago, and noticed the plumes of greasy black smoke from the electric power plants.  Some plants burn diesel fuel, others burn pet coke, an oily waste mixture.  Nasty stuff.

So, I'm touring a demonstration / model farm the next day and the guide is explaning the fertility of Cuban soil,

ME: That greasy dark sooty smoke all falls to earth and goes into the soil. How can that be good for your peppers, tomatoes, lettuce?

HER: (Deer in headlights expression)  I'm not concerned.  If it was a problem the Ministry of Health would already have issued a directive.  Next question?

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>  This is not the United States I was raised
> in--it's becoming a 2nd world nation under this
> Administration.  This is how incompetence and
> corrupton begin, when rule of law is overlooked
> for personal, or associated, gain.  

Hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but incompetence and corruption in government here in the US has been going on for quite a while, a couple decades even.

bigkidpgh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That’s really great news seeing that mercury
> causes brain damage, learning disabilities and
> other birth defects in children, among other harm.
> Coal power plants in this country are the largest
> single man-made source of mercury pollutants,
> which enters the food chain through fish and other
> items that people consume. So great to see such
> progress being made in this country. And we’ll
> still have coal trains to photograph! Sounds like
> a win-win to me........

As I bite my tongue....check out our oceans sometime.....

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coach Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >  This is not the United States I was raised
> > in--it's becoming a 2nd world nation under this
> > Administration.  This is how incompetence and
> > corrupton begin, when rule of law is overlooked
> > for personal, or associated, gain.  
>
> Hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but
> incompetence and corruption in government here in
> the US has been going on for quite a while, a
> couple decades even.

It's been going on for a couple of centuries! But it just got a whole lot worse recently... ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/18 15:26 by exhaustED.

exhaustED Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jst3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > coach Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >  This is not the United States I was raised
> > > in--it's becoming a 2nd world nation under
> this
> > > Administration.  This is how incompetence
> and
> > > corrupton begin, when rule of law is
> overlooked
> > > for personal, or associated, gain.  
> >
> > Hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but
> > incompetence and corruption in government here
> in
> > the US has been going on for quite a while, a
> > couple decades even.
>
> It's been going on for a couple of centuries! But
> it just got a whole lot worse recently... ;-)
There is nothing perfect in the earth, above it or below it....so long as we exist it will be somewhat despoiled....you are not going to stop eating or drinking simply because you know you would starve long before bad food gives you cancer if you don't eat and drink.. And so long as I make money hauling coal....your butt will be warmed by it, or I am coming to you for my paycheck if it stops. 

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We like to point our U.S. fingers at other 3rd
> world countries and say "LOOK!  TOTALLY
> CORRUPT!!" and then laugh at how incompetent their
> civil rules, laws and management is, due to the
> people in charge.
>
> Thus, I point out this fact from the original
> post:
>
> "The current EPA acting administrator was once a
> lobbyist for Murrary Energy, the plaintiff in this
> proceeding."
>
> And now the world can point the finger at us.
>  This is not the United States I was raised
> in--it's becoming a 2nd world nation under this
> Administration.  This is how incompetence and
> corrupton begin, when rule of law is overlooked
> for personal, or associated, gain.  Clearly, the
> above fact represents a total "conflict of
> interest" that should carry extremely heavy
> consideration in any such ruling.
>
> "I pledge allegiance, to my friends, of the United
> States of America.  And to the republic, from
> which they gain, a divided nation, corrupt,
> diviisible, with liberty and justice for those in
> control."

It's not "corruption" in the United States because corruption is legal here.  Government of the United States is available for purchase if you have the dollars.  

engineerinvirginia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exhaustED Wrote:

> > It's been going on for a couple of centuries!
> But it just got a whole lot worse recently... ;-)
>

> There is nothing perfect in the earth, above it or
> below it....so long as we exist it will be
> somewhat despoiled....you are not going to stop
> eating or drinking simply because you know you
> would starve long before bad food gives you cancer
> if you don't eat and drink.. And so long as I make
> money hauling coal....your butt will be warmed by
> it, or I am coming to you for my paycheck if it
> stops. 

You're right, nothing's perfect, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it better. That's why you and me are around today - we now have medicines, good food, less fighting/wars. I'm trying to stop my butt from being warmed by coal because I switched energy provider to one favouring renewables, so don't come to me for money, you'll have to find yourself a longer-term sustainable occupation! 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/18 04:45 by exhaustED.

If your paycheck stops because there’s no more coal to haul, that’s no ones fault but your own. The writing has been on the wall now for decades. I’d start looking for a different profession if you’re counting on that to be your livelihood for any extended period of time.

Coal is not going away completely anytime soon. Like it or not, it is still a very dependable source of energy.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/18 10:36 by ns1000.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HER: (Deer in headlights expression)  I'm not
> concerned.  If it was a problem the Ministry of
> Health would already have issued a directive. 
> Next question?

Do you think they will let you back in next trip?

spwolfmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not "corruption" in the United States because
> corruption is legal here.  Government of the
> United States is available for purchase if you
> have the dollars.  

Personally, I am more concerned about mercury in the environment than a slight rise in CO2.

However, I bet the "developing countries" are getting a pass on mercury emissions and are spewing forth as much as ever, while we have our levels battened down pretty good.

We used to play with that stuff when we were kids, but the thought of that fills me with horror today.

bigkidpgh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If your paycheck stops because there’s no more
> coal to haul, that’s no ones fault but your own.
> The writing has been on the wall now for decades.
> I’d start looking for a different profession if
> you’re counting on that to be your livelihood
> for any extended period of time.

I am 54 and there's no where to go....my only option with MS is to work until retirement or file for disability. 

Tommorrow, in San Antonio Texas, "Dirty Deely", an 820 mega watt coal fired plant will be shut down by City Public Service.  And that's a good thing, since there weren't effective scrubbers on its stack.  CPS had already planned for this by picking up a replacement natural gas plant.  So, our air will be cleaner, and thats a good thing-thousands of tons of sulfur dioxide, cabon dioxide and mercury gone.