Eastern Railroad Discussion > Railfan Safety

From a recent trip to Folkston. I purposely shot the photo so as not to identify the participants. I see many posts on here that are indignant about how some railroads or some locations do not welcome railfans with open arms. For those that have never been to Folkston, this is a location that has a city-built railfan platform and restored station with tables and benches from which to safely watch trains. Within 50 feet of where this photo was shot are two grade crossings they could have used to get to the other side. There are wooden posts with a metal chain running between them that clearly dilineates CSX property. On top of all this, there is a site map at the platform that highlights which areas belong to the railroad and ask visitors not to venture onto them. But all of these things didn't stop this family. By the way, what kind of message does this say to those children? And yet we wonder why, at times, railroads are thrilled with us. Sorry for the rant, but I hate to see stupid acts like this.

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If they were trying to get to the other side how else were they suppose to cross. I don't see a problem as long as a train isn't coming. Its not hard to look both ways and I bet they surely did. If you are trying to say they were suppose to cross at the grade crosing wouldn't think it would be all that much safer. You are still walking across the tracks then...I see more general public and acting stupid it seems then railfans a lot of time.

eagleknight Wrote:
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> If they were trying to get to the other side how
> else were they suppose to cross. I don't see a
> problem as long as a train isn't coming. Its not
> hard to look both ways and I bet they surely did.
> If you are trying to say they were suppose to
> cross at the grade crosing wouldn't think it
> would be all that much safer. You are still
> walking across the tracks then...I see more
> general public and acting stupid it seems then
> railfans a lot of time.

First off, they are at one of the busiest mainlines in America. Secondly the right of way is clearly marked. And third, yes they should cross at a marked crossing with light and gates instead of walking over the rails. That's common sense. What I failed to mention is that the "parent" decided this was a good place to let his kids play for a few minutes.

Letting them play on the tracks isn't too smart for sure.

Don't know why you wanted to protect their identity.
At least the parent should be publically ID'd so they
can be shamed by their peers for allowing the kids to
play on the tracks. Peer pressure is a great thing.

A prime example of the height of stupidity.

Did you,as an experienced railfan, take the father aside and politely explain the situation??? I have been a railfan all of my life, and have been a Conductor for NS the past 3 years, when I have come across similar situations, I have always at least tried to correct it, there are many out there that are just uneducated in things railroad, and that's a danger to us all!!!

Here's an interesting point to consider:

"What if the child trips on a tie and bust open his head? Next thing you know, he'll be suing CSX and then the city of Folkston for the idea of having a train watching area there, despite not using the city built platform. "

While most of us might think, "well, I'd never sue the railroad," that's probably correct. However, rest assured that when your investment firm, uh, I mean insurance company realizes you busted your head on someone else's property, they will quickly seek out the owner of that property to "insure" that they don't have to pay up for your accident.

A public railroad crossing is just that-- public and a much safer place to cross. I learned my lesson many years ago when taking "the straight route across" because I was pushing my time to get to the sunny side to take a photograph. The few extra seconds to go up to the grade crossing were quickly blown off. Well, after winding up on my face in the ballast with scratched up hands and a busted haze filter on my camera after my toe clipped the second rail, I quickly realized that was peanuts were I to have been knocked unconcious by my fall. The grade crossing was ridiculously close, just as it is in the posed situation in Folkston. My rushed mentality led me straight across, as it, laziness, and an overall feeling of "I know how to cross the tracks, don't step on the rails, etc." does many a fan. I now think about my safety, trespassing, and the example I set for others around.

As harmless as crossing the tracks seems, it is very dangerous. Previous posters are correct-- young minds are very impressionable, and these kids will likely grow up to see the tracks as a harmless, fun place to play unless getting some good counseling while still impressionable.

Finally, for what it's worth, I know of several cases where the local PD or railroad police have set up shop in places where this is a problem, and issued citations. Fans, kids, homeless, it doesn't matter...they all get a citation. Not worth it.

Mike Derrick
http://www.shortlinesusa.com

Bottom line, this is type crap that wrecks it for all of us. I ran into a situation similar to this back in the days when the gang could hang out at CP BURN in Allentown, Pa. Father with a kid letting him play in the electric switch that connected the Lehigh line to the Reading main line. I really gave this guy crap about letting his little kid play in that switch. This just shows how dumb the human really can be.

My 2 cents!

TCHOWEE OUT!

My father took me to watch trains go by when I was a kid. Never had a scanner or any of that stuff, so unless we heard a horn nearby and made it to the tracks in time, it was pretty hit or miss.

One time (I was probably around the age of the kids in that photo) after a while of waiting with nothing coming, he took me down to see the tracks up close, even found a stray spike for me to take home. Might sound boring to some, but it was fascinating to me and I still remember it today. It was probably a big part in sparking my interest in railroads.

He also made sure I knew how dangerous railroad tracks are and that I was only allowed near them that one time because he was there.

I'm sure in the context of that photo, you can make it out to look like something careless, dangerous, and extreme if you want. What I see is a father sharing something he's passionate about with his children, and it's something that you are all passionate about too. And you're calling him an idiot.

You guys amaze me sometimes.

lowslot Wrote:
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> I'm sure in the context of that photo, you can
> make it out to look like something careless,
> dangerous, and extreme if you want. What I see is
> a father sharing something he's passionate about
> with his children, and it's something that you are
> all passionate about too. And you're calling him
> an idiot.
>
> You guys amaze me sometimes.


First off, I was THERE. The father was allowing his kids to walk over rails and play on the tracks. One almost fell when he partially tripped over a rail, as you can see the other is walking on top of a rail which is dangerous by anyone's standards. He had to lift one of them over the rails while his other child almost busted his head open. I share my passion for railfanning with my son, but if you think I would let him walk on top of rails, walk between a busy double track mainline, instead of teaching him safety, you are the one that amazes me.

As far as the "railfan police" comment on here, at the very least, we are observing dangerous behavior, at the most a possible tragedy in the making. And yes, if you watch fellow railfans act stupidly and don't say anything, then don't complain the next time the railroad police kick you out. Its people like this (at the very minimum) that screw it up for the rest of us.

Had this been Charlottesville, VA… they would have all been fined. Charlottesville has turned the Virginia “No Trespassing on RR Tracks Law” into a cash cow citing all those idiot college kids for crossing the tracks to get to downtown and to the university instead of using the bridges and grade crossings. I have heard even railfans have been busted. And repeat offenders get jail time. 90 days Jerry… 90 days!!! My attorney will be in touch!

Galen
K4CnO

I might be called names,but I don't care.When I go to Folkston (I am a charter member of the railfan club)and see something like that,I make it a point myself to talk to those involved.I will not stand by and let unknowing or uncaring people ruin the best train watching location in the SE US.
I can't be there all the time,but I assure you that many of my friends as well as the locals will talk to these people.One of my friends told me someone gave him lip about being on the tracks.My simple answer,I call the police.
I feel that all responsible railfans should do the same.

Uncle Joe Oates
Seffner,Fl.

RFandPFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lowslot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm sure in the context of that photo, you
> can
> > make it out to look like something careless,
> > dangerous, and extreme if you want. What I
> see is
> > a father sharing something he's passionate
> about
> > with his children, and it's something that
> you are
> > all passionate about too. And you're calling
> him
> > an idiot.
> >
> > You guys amaze me sometimes.
>
>
> First off, I was THERE. The father was allowing
> his kids to walk over rails and play on the
> tracks. One almost fell when he partially tripped
> over a rail, as you can see the other is walking
> on top of a rail which is dangerous by anyone's
> standards. He had to lift one of them over the
> rails while his other child almost busted his head
> open. I share my passion for railfanning with my
> son, but if you think I would let him walk on top
> of rails, walk between a busy double track
> mainline, instead of teaching him safety, you are
> the one that amazes me.
>
> As far as the "railfan police" comment on here, at
> the very least, we are observing dangerous
> behavior, at the most a possible tragedy in the
> making. And yes, if you watch fellow railfans act
> stupidly and don't say anything, then don't
> complain the next time the railroad police kick
> you out. Its people like this (at the very
> minimum) that screw it up for the rest of us.
>

Kids fall down lots. Fortunately they're built pretty sturdy, and are also pretty easy to pick back up. I don't consider standing atop a 4-inch-tall object to be all that dangerous, myself. Come to think of it, I've actually seen sections of rail installed in playgrounds as balance beams for kids to play on. Come on now, acting as if the rail itself is dangerous is just silly. They don't bite.

Trains are the danger. What is the visibility down the tracks like at this location? Any blind curves just out of the frame?

I'm not saying parents should take their kids down to the tracks for a good time. I'm saying a supervised one-time up-close look at the tracks with nothing coming is pretty harmless, and I see no evidence that this was anything more than that. This guy doesn't deserve the stringing-up he's received here.

The threat of getting hit by a train unintentionally is pretty miniscule compared to the treat of being injured in or by an automobile. Do you go out and photograph people speeding? Running red lights? How about pedestrians crossing the steet illegally? Do you photograph them? I doubt it. So why bother someone trackside in a far less threating environment? Some of you think it's "your" railroad and that "you" have the right to police it. It isn't and you don't.

rfprr

rfprr Wrote:
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> The threat of getting hit by a train
> unintentionally is pretty miniscule compared to
> the treat of being injured in or by an automobile.
> Do you go out and photograph people speeding?
> Running red lights? How about pedestrians
> crossing the steet illegally? Do you photograph
> them? I doubt it. So why bother someone
> trackside in a far less threating environment?
> Some of you think it's "your" railroad and that
> "you" have the right to police it. It isn't and
> you don't.

OK ...and what would YOU say about a parent if he let his kids play around in the lanes of an interstate highway? Heck, forget a playground when you have three lanes of semis traveling 65MPH to play in! At least a truck can swerve if you didn't realize it was coming!

Not to mention, if the threat of getting hit by a train unintentionally is so miniscule, how is it that I end up having far more close calls with pedestrians while I'm behind the throttle of a locomotive, than I do driving my car?

I can't believe there's guys actually defending the idiotic father in question. And then you guys wonder why we call ANYONE we see on the tracks in to the dispatcher!

The antithesis of the person who knows nothing about trains, are those who know just enough to pose a danger to themselves. They're usually the ones we spot zipping back and forth across the tracks like a squirrel as soon as a train's headlight appears, then look at us in amazement or disgust when we don't wave back to them.

I think the bottom line here is it is trespassing and it’s illegal. It makes me nervous as hell every time we come up on a person near the tracks. I have no idea what a person is going to do...are they just walking? Are they drunk? Are they going to throw a rock at me? Do they have a gun? Its not a good practice to teach children this type of behavior, and everyone out there that says its ruining it for the fans is correct. If I see someone trespassing I call the cops. It’s not worth my life or theirs if something should happen, a train can go anywhere if it derails...right??

rfprr Wrote:
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> them? I doubt it. So why bother someone
> trackside in a far less threating environment?
> Some of you think it's "your" railroad and that
> "you" have the right to police it. It isn't and
> you don't.
Re: children (anyone) on roadbbed:
It's PRIVATE property, it's dangerous, you people at the viewing areas are tolerated "guests". Keep playing out there on the tracks and instead of that cable, there will be a chain link fence to photo through.
Tommy

Well, on the twentieth response, it's time for the Operation Lifesaver presenter to weigh in.

Bear with me if I repeat anything but behavioral scientists have held that a person doesn't fully respond to a different way of doing things until they have heard it THIRTEEN TIMES!

Those who have children will understand the most.

On to business:

1. Railroad Property is Private Property.
2. Those crossing it at other than public crossings are trespassing.
3. In 2004, the country lost nearly 900 of the general public on railroad property due to trespassing and vehicle versus train crashes.
4. In 2004, the country lost about 25 professional railroaders on railroad property.

So in 2004, the ratio of fatalities was 36 to 1 against those who spend mere seconds on Railroad Property.

The situation where folks trespass is the same everywhere. If you do approach someone who is trespassing; stay off railroad property. I've had the dubious honor of being baited by those who would try to bring shame to me and the OL safety message. In one case, the grandfather of two grandchildren had the intent to sue if I intervened. When he faked being deaf after talking to the kids was a good clue. All three were on the track immediately before and after a freight passed at 40 mph to place and recover coins they had put on the rails.

A sick situation indeed.

By the way, the coins were scattered; some ricocheted off a wayside fence and they found none.

Don't blame the kids.

What I desire for the guardian, well, he ain't no grandfather.

-PRR 5711

I have to admit I was amazed after posting this that a few railfans condoned this guy's actions. How anyone who has spent time around the railroad can say that this behavior is okay is beyond me. I guess I was brought up in a different time where we were told to respect private property and to be accountable for what we teach our children. Thanks to the OL presenters for chiming in. Keep up the good work.