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Eastern Railroad Discussion > How many N&W units actually had dual controls?


Date: 03/21/06 06:08
How many N&W units actually had dual controls?
Author: Cameraman

I am helping a book author with some research on NS locomotives. I know the SR side of the roster. But I am weak on the N&W stuff.

The following questions apply only to former N&W power:

Which entire classes of engines had dual-controls, if any? ******Hint: Don't confuse the term bi-direction in a roster with dual-control. And a high short hood does not always mean dual-control.

On a high short hood, dual-control engine. Which end of an engine was designated the front? Which end had the F on the frame. Were they consistant? or did this vary?

Did bell placement indicate the front on NW the way it did on SR units? The SR always placed the bell on the "designated front" of the unit even if that was the long-hood end.

Where there ever any low hood dual-contol units?

Once N&W went to low hood, did they set the long hood up as front?

Any help is appreciated.



Date: 03/21/06 07:36
Re: Long Hood as Front
Author: Phil

Here is what I know. When the N&W switched to a low nose, it still designated the long hood as the front of the unit on its EMDs and I believe the GEs. The single control stand was located on the firemans/conductors side of the cab and mounted in a manner that the engineer could comfortably run the unit with either hood leading. On its final order of SD40-2s the N&W reverted to the standard or conventional control stand placement with the short and low hood leading. Hope this helps.

Phil



Date: 03/21/06 09:12
Re: How many N&W units actually had dual controls?
Author: NSDash9

To answer your questions:

ALL of the high hood locomotives purchased by the N&W were equipped with dual control stands. In fact, nearly all of the diesel locomotives purchased by the N&W, from the time it began dieselization in 1955 until it purchased its first low short hood units in 1974, were equipped with dual control stands. The only exceptions were six of the 40 Alco T-6 switchers, which came with single control stands, while the remainder of T-6 units were equipped with dual control stands. Locomotives acquired from other roads through mergers retained their as-equipped control setup, generally meaning those units had single control.

On the N&W, the long hood end of dual control units was considered the front.

Generally, the bell on dual control units was on the short hood end. Exceptions included the Alco RS-3, RS-11, RS-36, T-6 units, as well as some EMD GP9 and GP18 units. The bell on bi-directional units was on the long hood end. The first order of single control C30-7's had the bell on the long hood end, while the 2nd order units had the bell frame mounted. Other single control units had the bell frame mounted.

Bell placement did not indicate the front on N&W units.

The only low short hood units with dual control stands on the N&W were its Alco RS-3's.

The long hood end of all bi-directional control units purchased by the N&W was considered the front. It wasn't until 1978, that N&W switched to single control and those units had the short hood end designated as the front.

Please let me know if you need anything further.


Chris Toth
http://www.nsdash9.com



Date: 03/21/06 09:29
Re: How many N&W units actually had dual controls?
Author: wlankenau

Dual control switchers??? Wow. Which type of dual control did N&W use, a standard control stand on each side of the cab, or the big monolith in the middle with handles on both sides?



Date: 03/21/06 09:37
Re: How many N&W units actually had dual controls?
Author: NSDash9

The N&W dual control units had two seperate control stands.

Chris Toth



Date: 03/21/06 10:01
Re: How many N&W units actually had dual controls?
Author: TV-10

> from the time it began
> dieselization in 1955 until it purchased its first
> low short hood units in 1974, were equipped with
> dual control stands.

I take it the 1974 reference was to the low nose 1600-series SD40-2s? These had single stands?

> It wasn't until 1978, that N&W switched to
> single control and those units had the short hood
> end designated as the front.


Did this 1978 date have anything to do with the strike, and with Management having to operate these cramped dual control units?

Kinda strange to see N&W adopt SHF in 1978, but then have SOU influence via the NS merger reverse that stance (a-la the SD50s and SD60s being LHF)



Date: 03/21/06 10:46
Re: How many N&W units actually had dual controls?
Author: NSDash9

TV-10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I take it the 1974 reference was to the low nose
> 1600-series SD40-2s? These had single stands?

The first bi-directional units were GE U30C Nos. 8000-8002, followed by EMD SD40-2 Nos. 1636-1652. Bi-directional control had one control stand mounted parallel to the cab side, which made it easier to run in either direction. Single control had one control stand mounted at an angle to the cab side, thus making it more difficult when running backward for long periods.

> Did this 1978 date have anything to do with the
> strike, and with Management having to operate
> these cramped dual control units?

I imagine that helped, but I suspect that cost also played a part (it was cheaper to purchase the units with the standard single control arrangement rather than having the optional bi-directional setup with the control stand on the opposite side of the cab), as well as requirements of some union agreements.

> Kinda strange to see N&W adopt SHF in 1978, but
> then have SOU influence via the NS merger reverse
> that stance (a-la the SD50s and SD60s being LHF)

Right. Initially, NS adopted a combination of N&W and Southern motive power philosophies for new power purchases. They ordered units with low short hoods like the N&W, setup with bi-directional control like the Southern.


Chris Toth



Date: 03/21/06 14:04
Re: Long Hood as Front
Author: lew

Phil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
and mounted in
> a manner that the engineer could comfortably run
> the unit with either hood leading.
> Phil

Having done it many times and if I were to question my peer group, you'd get the same response. It wasn't "comfortably". Despised sitting on the left side, did then, still do. But, that's just an editorial comment.



Date: 03/21/06 20:41
Re: How many N&W units actually had dual controls?
Author: ts1457

NSDash9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > Did this 1978 date have anything to do with the
> > strike, and with Management having to operate
> > these cramped dual control units?
>
> I imagine that helped, but I suspect that cost
> also played a part (it was cheaper to purchase the
> units with the standard single control arrangement
> rather than having the optional bi-directional
> setup with the control stand on the opposite side
> of the cab), as well as requirements of some union
> agreements.


Doing away with high-hood's and dual control stands came about when Fishwick found out how much those "options" were costing. All of that was before the 1978 Strike as noted in previous posts. Dual control stand mean twice as much has to be maintained, including expensive required maintenance for the air brake control valves, so more than the capital costs come into play.



Date: 03/22/06 05:20
Are any dual control units still in service on NS?
Author: Cameraman

Chris,

Are any dual control units still in service on NS?



Date: 03/22/06 09:09
Re: Are any dual control units still in service on NS?
Author: NSDash9

Below is a list of the NS (NW) units still in service that have dual control stands. However, only the left side control stand is now used on these units by NS crews, making these units operate as if the short hood was the front, even though the long hood end is still the front.

21 EMD GP40 (1357-1388)
23 EMD SD40 (1580-1624)
11 EMD SD40-2 (1625-1635)
20 EMD GP38AC (4100-4158)

Chris Toth



Date: 03/22/06 14:14
Re: Are any dual control units still in service on NS?
Author: TriangleRoute

Here at the SLWC we have 4 ex NW high hood SD-40's still with dual control stands. I BELIEVE the stand on the firemans side is "deactivated", but haven't ever tried to use it. Might give it a try just to see. I know the brake valves work over there, because one night a new conductor "accidentally" removed the lock pin on the independent, and I got a kick in the pants from a 40 MPH rock train when he "accidentally" hit the brakes! Could have been ugly...

Frankly, I don't mind the dual stands, with just me and a condr on board I don't think it's too crowded. I guess I'm just used to it now.
TR



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