Eastern Railroad Discussion > NS days in Canada are numbered...

Rumor has it up here int he Great White north, that Norfolk Southern, under original Agreements with the Wabash, from more then a Century ago, is come to an end on December 31, 2006. NS has chosen from what I understand to not take the Ford Contract for St Thomas, Ontario, since fears of the Factory closing are lingering all the time now (even tho Ford has promised the Lincoln to come from Wixom, Michigan, which nothing has started yet). NS guys from what I have been told, have been already showing up at CN's Door step to apply for jobs, since they are going to be out of work, just like there other brothers did a few years ago, when NS canceled the Windsor to St Thomas Run. Now the Buffalo to St Thomas run is only supposed to be running Tomorrow and Friday, and then Shut down, with maybe 1 or 2 trains in between to bring the rest of the cars back and forth to clear the warehouses, and also move the last of the Grain Cars. NS is still running Transfer trains into Canada, at Windsor (as NS LD57/LV90), and also into CN Port Robinson (an NS 369), but no word on as to which crews will take the trains, as the Windsor Job is already all American NS guys doing the transfer. This was no real big shocker to me that NS was pulling out of Canada, as earlier this past fall CN announced that the CN Payne Sub to St Thomas(formerly the CN Chatham Sub, before the Chatham sub was changed over to the former CN Longwoods Sub from Glencoe East to Komoka, ON) is on its list for Discontinuance. So for us Southern Ontario Railfans, and others that enjoyed coming out to see some Ontario Railfanning, we will now miss the Long trains of just sometimes 50 or so 86' Auto Boxcars trains, and the some times with Grain cars in the Mix, and the nice mix of Anything power.

Also CN still hasn't finalized on how the train will run once its in there hands. There is a few likely ways, of what CN is going to do, but just wait and see what CN comes up with in the mean time, and then Change it in April when the change of card comes.

(Picture is from Paris, Ontario, of NS 328, on its way to Buffalo. This was taken back in May 2005)
Ian
Windsor, Ontario
http://www.trainweb.org/swontariotrain/index.html
http://www.trainweb.org/wmrc/index.html

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Does CSX still run trains in Canada via trackage rights?

Does NS use the old NYC tunnel for the transfers? How long ago was it that they stopped using the boats btw Detroit and Windsor?

For Wabash fans the only two remaining examples of Wabash freight "covered wagons" exist because of this arrangement. The Wabash F-7 at Monticello, Illinois and the other at Belevue, Ohio were among the last pocket of Wabash F units in service albeit in Canada by N&W long after they had disappeared off the lines in the states. I believe both units were built by General Motors in Canada because of tax restrictions.

I don't have my research material handy right now but if my memory serves me correctly, the agreement dates back to the 1880's with the "Grand Trunk of Canada" (a CN predecessor, not to be confused with the Grand Trunk in the states.)

The amount of traffic in the early days was large including through passenger trains. Whole passenger trains including steam locomotives would be barged btw Detroit and Windsor in the early years). Mostly in response to this traffic, the Wabash completed their 4th District west to Chicago from Montpelier, Ohio in 1893 providing a through Wabash route btw Detroit and Chicago (with exception of using some belt/terminal railroads in the Chicago area.) They had been using the Chicago & Atlantic (An Erie predecessor) btw Laketon, Indiana and Chicago before that. (The Erie predecessor in Indiana took the Wabash to court to get them off their tracks as at that time the C&A/C&E was only single track and needed the capacity for itself. And the 1893 Chicago World's Fair was coming soon.

The Canadian agreement also provided the Wabash an east-west route with connections to eastern roads at Buffalo. The Wabash had some pretty hot passenger trains in the late 1800's and early 1900's across Canada including the mainline passenger trains that carried passengers to the 1893 Worlds Fair in Chicago.

The NS ferries across the Detroit River were discontinued circa 1994 once one of the two Detroit River Tunnel tubes was enlarged for 19' doublestacks.

CSX operates local service in the Sarnia area on former Pere Marquette trackage, but all traffic is forwarded to/from that isolated operation by the CN. CSX stopped running its own road trains in Ontario some years ago -- might have even been the late 1990s.

I got a couple of shots of NS #344, including one on the Paines Sub (but not crossing the Thames River bridge, darnit!), in 2003 before operations west of London were discontinued; the St. Thomas west traffic is now forwarded on CN trains 434-435. I've also gotten a few shots of Nos. 327 and 328 on the Dundas Sub which naturally will become more valuable to me if those trains' imminent disappearance is correct.

It's correct. Could be as soon as this weekend.

Last NS 328 ordered at St Thomas 0400 Friday morning.
And that will be it!

Makes me glad I snapped a foggy, rain drenched photo of NS 328 coming around the cowpath at Bayview a few years back...

When I was working in Bflo during the CR years - it was already clear that once NW got the Wabash and
NKP into their hands, the canadian route was doom. The main argument was that it would be all routed
via NKP to Bflo and avoid the Candian route. CR enter into agreement with CN to route their trains right into
Frontier Yd for switching and later thur to Selkirk hump. This gave the CN the same deal that the WAB had with the Lackawanna back in the 50's when that ran their trains directly into the DLW yard at East Bffo for switching. A lot of the traffic off the Wab was the Ford Plant in Mahwah NJ via the Erie. That plant was closed many yrs ago. A lot traffic off the Wab at Buffalo was auto parts and the DLW got more than 40% of their
eastbound traffic off the Wabash. The NKP was the DLW's main interchange at Bflo receiving more than
70% of their eastbound traffic. That all changed with the merger of the DLW-Erie in the 1960's.

That is sad news!!! Loved meeting up with those guys as we'd sit down at hamilton jct waiting for a light. On my off time I'd go down to take pics of them at southern yard, around the wye at clifton etc.Thankfully I've got a few good pics of them !Will also miss those great lashups of power ....NS and Conrail and other assorted units.....

Sad to see my fellow rails losing their jobs. That line has probably been doomed for a long time, much as the Nickel Plate route to St. Louis west of Frankfort, Indiana, was doomed by the unification of the N&W/NKP/WAB by the Wabash route.

CSX also goes to/near Montreal, PQ via their former Conrail route north out of Syrcuse, NY.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> The NS ferries across the Detroit River were
> discontinued circa 1994 once one of the two
> Detroit River Tunnel tubes was enlarged for 19'
> doublestacks.

seems like it was around April. I saw my first CP doubletack train in Michigan in April of 94.
Before that, they were either single stacked, or COFC only.