Eastern Railroad Discussion > three step protection

On the NS Harrisburg scanner I often hear the term "three step protection". What exactly is three step protection? I think it has to do with safety. What are the three steps?

Brakes set, generator field off, reverser centered., in other words movement is disabled.

throttle centered
brake on
generator field switch off

throttle centered ??? as in run 4 1/2

Did you ever think to do a search???????

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,268835,268837#msg-268837

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/search.php?0,search=three+step+protection,page=1,match_type=PHRASE,match_dates=0,match_forum=ALL

Many questions I have had have been covered by doing a search.

Jaap Wrote:
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> throttle centered ??? as in run 4 1/2


how about between forward and reverse. ;-)

Throttle positions are idle,1-8, reverser is centered between forward and reverse

Deshler, it is not really necessary for you to rip someone for asking a question. Is it inappropriate to ask something that has been covered before? Do you think that a question shouldn't be asked just because you already know the answer? Let's not get so aloof here that a person can't ask a question without getting the third degree.

Jaap Wrote:
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> throttle centered ??? as in run 4 1/2


Yes... but it has to be one of those baldwin 16-position ones... ;)

Robbman Wrote:
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> Jaap Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > throttle centered ??? as in run 4 1/2
>
>
> Yes... but it has to be one of those baldwin
> 16-position ones... ;)


Or a GG1 with 22!

-Richard
Currently at HG-Tower

Basically it's the process in which the conductor (or brakemen, utility man, etc) asks the engineer to disable movements. The engineer does the three steps listed in posts above, and then tells the conductor it's applied. The conductor then goes in the middle to A: tie an air hose B: turn angle cocks C: apply/release handbrakes. Etc.

It's so that while I'm inside the rails, the train shouldn't move and kill me.

don't forget the stop position.... We often forget about it.
An over anxious person can sometimes pull that throttle and let it slip too far. LOL

WLE-Foam Wrote:
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>
> It's so that while I'm inside the rails, the train
> shouldn't move and kill me.

And here falls the major flaw with 3 step protection. Years ago, a switchman would know to expect any kinda movement regardless of the situation at hand. The railroads of today preach this 3 step protection, and the newer breed of railroaders have gained a false sense of safety believing that there's no way the equipment will move while he has protection.

Yes he's supposed to expect movement irregardless, but due to the mindset that's being created he/she/it doesnt expect movement.

I've seen many close calls due to this, and I expect I will continue to see them.

REflectiveMAN Wrote:
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> gained a false sense of safety
> believing that there's no way the equipment will
> move while he has protection.

There is no false sense of security for me in the rails. The railroad I operate on doesn't use 3-step protection on home rails. However, I NEVER go in the gauge until I know it's as safe as it can be to do so. Watch and listen for your slack action, and always know how the cars move. Safety first, always.

When on foreign rails and we use 3-step, I consider it an added bonus to my already safe practices. Freight cars don't forgive.

What would the hogger's 3-step routine require on a steam engine? Got an awful lotta notches on them grapevine throttles.....

Not sure who is still using Gen Field switch as part of the process, it is not required by CFR however. Many roads are now using:
1. Apply the air brake
2. Center the reverser
3. Confirm with the employee that steps 1 and 2 have been completed

trainmaster3 Wrote:
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> Not sure who is still using Gen Field switch as
> part of the process, it is not required by CFR
> however. Many roads are now using:
> 1. Apply the air brake
> 2. Center the reverser
> 3. Confirm with the employee that steps 1 and 2
> have been completed


Norfolk Southern

trainmaster3 Wrote:
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> Not sure who is still using Gen Field switch as
> part of the process, it is not required by CFR
> however. Many roads are now using:
> 1. Apply the air brake
> 2. Center the reverser
> 3. Confirm with the employee that steps 1 and 2
> have been completed



Confirm with the employee... who's modt likely on the ground... that you've done 1 & 2... by confiming you've done three-step, which in and of itself is confirming to the employee that you've done the steps required... talk about redundant, and useless. Just call it two-step protection then... I see why NS keeps gen field requirement...

"What would the hogger's 3-step routine require on a steam engine?"

1. Set the brake
2. Center the reverser
3. Shut the throttle

Doesn't have to be in that order, just let them know that you've done it. Of course, that's what we used to do before the term "three step protection" was coined. It just seemed like it would make sense so you didn't kill someone.

I waited for this to get off the front page before responding.

kxdisp Wrote:
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> Deshler, it is not really necessary for you to rip
> someone for asking a question.

The pot calling the kettle black?

Is it
> inappropriate to ask something that has been
> covered before? Do you think that a question
> shouldn't be asked just because you already know
> the answer?

How about doing a search first? Are we that lazy on here? There are dozens of responses to a search of "three step protection" before this thread. I didn't get personal and only asked one question. Sorry if I get a little testy now and then. It's almost like being in elementary school... I'd ask mom how to spell a work and she'd reply, "Did you look it up in the dictionary?" I guess things have changed in the last 40 years.

Let's not get so aloof here that a
> person can't ask a question without getting the
> third degree.


I don't want to rip on anyone but the search is there for a reason. BTW I never got past the 1st degree.