Eastern Railroad Discussion > "Going around the gates" OK for police?

There's a report in the local community news about a fight at a bus depot picketing site. The police were called, and one person says two police cars went around the railroad gates, which were down. A third police car waited out the train, which was reported to be pulling into the station.

I'm not a cop, or a professional standards person, but I'd be awfully reluctant to blast through down crossing gates, even if I could see one train. That train could be blocking the view of another train on the usually westbound, but signaled for both directions, other track.

There other alternatives to get to the fight scene which avoid crossing the railroad. (I'm guessing the train pulling into the station was the eastbound, which sometimes puts an engine on the crossing. The westbound would be on the "far" track, and would allow visibility up the eastbound track through the station. Eastbound and westbound trains are due into Walnut at the same time.)

In the overall gravity of police and EMS calls, this would seem to be in the lower end of important. Not a heart attack, not a hostage taking, not a shooting in progress, etc. Not something I'd put my life on the line to respond to.


<http://www.baristanet.com/2010/09/decamp-protest-turns-to-fisticuffs/#comments&gt;

Emergency vehicles can "break" traffic laws when running emergency, it all falls back on using "due care". That's a no-win situation for the police. If they wait out the train and someone gets punched, falls and hits their head on the curb and dies then they are criticized for not getting there quick enough (and probably sued too). If they go around the gates, they get criticized for not waiting. Not too many police want to get hit by a train, I'd presume they had good enough visibility to see they could make it.

I nearly hit a Kansas City, MO police car with lights on who stopped just short of going around lowered gates. They may be able to "bend" some laws, but. They must still keep public and their own safety as a top priority.

One time I was parked at a crossing just west of Leeds Junction, Maine. Crossing has only flashers, no gates, and has a decent dip on the road as it approaches the crossing. Doesn't have great visibility from the road of the tracks. I arrived just in time for the flashers to start up. Maybe within 10 seconds I see a Maine state police office speeding up behind me. The train is pretty much right on the crossing. He looks at it, almost goes around me, but gets the fourth toot of the horn and decides to hold back. He would have likely beaten it had he decided to cross, but didn't. I'm assuming if it was a real emergency he would have gone for it. It may have been, since another police car pulled behind the first, but the train was halfway across by then. There's not another crossing for a mile or two in either direction, so they couldn't really go around it.

heck, when i was in patrol i looked forward to the gates going down and seeing what was running on the bnsf's harbor sub! the only time i would have even thought about going around lowered r.r. crossing gates is if i was sure i could beat the train AND was responding code-3 to a crime of violence in progress or an officer/fireman needs help............

66

If he gets hit, he still gets charged !

Just reminds me of the video clip posted awhile back here on TO of the very nice extension fire truck that was parked on the tracks while assisting at an accident scene, or at least it was until the train hit it.

A long time ago, a long-since fired officer in the next town over was responding to a car stalled on the tracks. Actually, it was a drunk driver, who missed the crossing entirely, and bottomed the frame of the car out on the tracks, with the wheels in the air. The officer parked his patrol car on the crossing nearest the car, with lights flashing. And, of course, the train came along, and the officer got out of his car and made his hand up to the "STOP" motion...to which the train did--of course AFTER hitting the patrol car--you know how those laws of motion go!

Another one happened last year. A train had stopped on an uphill grade using the dynamic brakes (because we aren't allowed to use the air anymore--a different story tho.) THe rear end of the train got clear of only 1 lane of the crossing. A police officer, tired of waiting for the train to clear (It had been blocking the crossing for several minutes) went around the gates. Unfortunately, that was the exact time the slack in the train decided to roll downhill, and the rear car "coupled" up to the patrol car's passenger door, and knocked the car out into the right of way and off the road. You know how those laws of gravity go!

The lesson here is that patience pays, and that nobody is above the laws of nature!

Not long ago i was flagging a crossing with the gates down in Southern Johnson County Kansas. Johnson Sheriff Officer pulled up and wanted to go around the gates. I told him I couldn't legally flag him around the gates,but he would have to go at his own risk. He went around the gates anyway. When I told this to our rules person in KC, he told me I did the right thing.

Just the other day here in Fort Wayne, Indiana, I witnessed a police car speeding past a stopped school bus with its flag out. Just a few days ago we had a pedestrian hit (killed?)by a police car, but I don't know the circumstances. Less than a year ago a police car went off a curve and hit a house. A few years ago a police car was hit by a train that was only going 20 mph. If the mayor puts any pressure on the police force here, the officers do a ticket writing slow down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/10 16:23 by wabash2800.

If I can see the numbers on the police car.. or ambulances that run around the gates.. or buses..gas trucks.. or any other person I fill out the yellow near hit card that the UP provides us..

I met a fire captain that was on his way to a call and an Amtrak train almost hit the truck in Burbank, Ca, the engineer turned into the dispatcher the number of the truck. The LAFD was notified and this particular captain was suspended for 30 days. During that time he had to go through an Operation Lifesaver trainers class plus go to all of the local stations in the San Fernando Valley . He had to teach all of the firefighters (all shifts A, B and C ) about the dangers of running around the gates.

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just the other day here in Fort Wayne, Indiana, I
> witnessed a police car speeding past a stopped
> school bus with its flag out. Just a few days ago
> we had a pedestrian hit (killed?)by a police car,
> but I don't know the circumstances. Less than a
> year ago a police car went off a curve and hit a
> house. A few years ago a police car was hit by a
> train that was only going 20 mph. If the mayor
> puts any pressure on the police force here, the
> officers do a ticket writing slow down.

With Indianapolis in a state of near-uproar due to police misconduct (culminating
with a drunken IMPD officer hitting 3 motorcyclists, 1 killed, 2 crippled for life) all
that's needed now is a police vehicle connecting with a train. I'd probably cancel
my subscription to the local 'Pravda' over that one so I'd be spared the scathing
editorials and letters to the editor....

While I'm on the subject though, the IMPD misconduct was due to a very few people.
The vast majority are professionals, and there are a number of railfans/model
railroaders on the force. It's always the few that make the many look bad.

Stupidity is found in all walks of life.

I've had the cops in Archie, MO cross in front of me at a lit, but not gated crossing. Once he pulled up, stopped, turned on the lights, and gunned it. We were close enough I could read the side of the car at 11 P.M. Another time he just sped up and crossed ahead of us, never touched the lights.

If I'd done that chasing a steam engine, I would have been crucified on sight.

Pump

A number of years ago in California a slow moving train came upon a guy frantically waving his arms in front of a stalled car. They got stopped but then the slack ran-in and wrecked his car. He told the cops "they stopped, and then hit my car because I am black".

Go figure.