Eastern Railroad Discussion > ATC Equipment on ex Conrail units

I have a photograph of an ex Conrail GP40-2 (now CSX 4443) that has the following message stenciled on the cab signal box

"ATC DISABLED"

Does this mean that this unit is equipped with automatic train control (for use on the NEC etc.) and that it is now disabled? Or is this a "generic" description for the cab signal equipment?

Also, I have been seeing several ex Conrail locomotives (mostly SD50's & SD60's) that have had the cab signal box on the running board removed. Is this equipment being transferred to other (newer) units, or is it being removed and scrapped?

As far as in know there were never any Conrail engines that ever had ATC, Conrail only had CCS, and LSL.. and at one time but not recently they had engines equipped with ATS, but most of what was left of that was removed quite some time ago.

As far as the Cab Signal boxes being removed, it's probably because the equiptment is being converted to microprocessor type of equiptment that's not as large as the older equiptment and being moved inside the nose, but that's just my guess on all this...

CSS (Cab Cignal System) was what used the box "out front" on the SD50/60's. It's my opinion that as well as the microprossers being smaller and capable of moving inside the cab, I think that some of these units are being scavenged to keep other ones running untill they can get newer engines to work the ex-pensy cab signals. Also since NS has the lions share of the CSS equipped territory, they need equipped locos moreso that CSX. That being said, the new GE's that the CSX and NS that I've been on have "universal" CSS systems...like RF&P, CR, UP, CNW...technology--it's a beautiful thing.
Conrail engines were equipped with LSL (Locomotive Speed Limiter) that WAS used on the NEC. you can tell equipped GE Dash 8-40CW's because they had yellow "turn signals" on the sides of the cabs, down by the frame. ~~DRLOCO

DRLOCO wrote:
>
> That being said, the new GE's that the CSX
> and NS that I've been on have "universal" CSS systems...like
> RF&P, CR, UP, CNW...technology--it's a beautiful thing.
> Conrail engines were equipped with LSL (Locomotive Speed
> Limiter) that WAS used on the NEC. you can tell equipped GE
> Dash 8-40CW's because they had yellow "turn signals" on the
> sides of the cabs, down by the frame. ~~DRLOCO

To the best of my knowledge, CSX's pre-CR cab signals (those used mostly in former RF&P territory) are not interchangeable with the other systems. We'd often get CSS equipped units from various roads (CSX, RF&P, UP, CNW) in our area, and they were always relegated to trailing units in CR/AMTK/NJT cab signal territory because the systems are not compatible (according to CR mechanical). I have seen no evidence that NS's newer power is equipped with a "Universal" system. It's basically the latest version of the CR CSS/LSL package (the LSL still required on freight trains using Amtrak's NEC) applied to NS units. At one time, NS, CSX, and CR were going to experiment with a univeral GPS system that could be used on any of the three RR's, but that project appears to have been long abandoned. NS's Dash 9-40CW's do have LSL, and the indicator lights are mounted on either side, about halfway up on the front quarters of the nose...

Runs4TheNS wrote:
>
> DRLOCO wrote:
> >
> > That being said, the new GE's that the CSX
> > and NS that I've been on have "universal" CSS systems...like
> > RF&P, CR, UP, CNW...technology--it's a beautiful thing.
> > Conrail engines were equipped with LSL (Locomotive Speed
> > Limiter) that WAS used on the NEC. you can tell equipped GE
> > Dash 8-40CW's because they had yellow "turn signals" on the
> > sides of the cabs, down by the frame. ~~DRLOCO
>
> To the best of my knowledge, CSX's pre-CR cab signals (those
> used mostly in former RF&P territory) are not interchangeable
> with the other systems.

In late 1999 the RF&P system was changed to be the same as CR's system. Any CR road unit can now lead on the RF&P, PRR, or Boston Line.


> I have seen no evidence that NS's newer power is equipped with a
> "Universal" system.

There were a report earlier that some Middle Division or Harrisburg Terminal DS asked a train with a UP leader whether their cab signals were working or not. I wonder if Juniata is retrofitting UP power that gets worked on there with a universal system. And then there's that KCS leader spotted by CRSmurf at C'maugh. Are lease-designed units from non-CCS roads getting it too?

Kevin-D wrote:
>
>
> In late 1999 the RF&P system was changed to be the same as CR's
> system. Any CR road unit can now lead on the RF&P, PRR, or
> Boston Line.
>

That makes sense, as CSX would have had to support multiple systems without the change. When I worked the CSX-CR run through trains while in the engineer training program, we always had to have one of the CSX CSS equipped units in the lead heading south. It was often tough enough for CR to keep up with that requirement as it was... let alone adding additional unique systems.

> There were a report earlier that some Middle Division or
> Harrisburg Terminal DS asked a train with a UP leader whether
> their cab signals were working or not. I wonder if Juniata is
> retrofitting UP power that gets worked on there with a
> universal system. And then there's that KCS leader spotted by
> CRSmurf at C'maugh. Are lease-designed units from non-CCS
> roads getting it too?

It could have been a case where the DS asked them if they had a cab signal equipped unit, and the crew saw the CSS equipment on the UP engine and replied yes... which would have lead to the questions heard on the radio. It's also likely the KCS unit did not get cab signals, and was running under authority to operate as a leader in CSS territory. Since we don't run into the situation that often on this end, my memory of some CSS rules needs to be jogged a bit when it comes to non-equipped units, but we do hear the Harrisburg Terminal DS often giving CP trains permission to run in CSS territory via rule 556... which allows them to operate without cab signals...

for what it's worth, the majority (but not all) of the ex-CR SD40-2's and SD50's i've been getting lately have had the cab signal equipment removed.

randy b.
CSXT - philadelphia

On a somewhat related note, I have been wondering something, and would like to know. What type of cab signal system do the ex-CR cab signals, or any freight locomotives for that matter, actually have? Do they simply have ATS (Automatic Train Stop), which will impose a penalty application if a cab signal change to a less favorable indication in not acknowledged in 4-6 seconds? Or do they have ATC (Automatic Train Control) which in addition to the ATS functions, imposes a speed limit on a particular cab signal aspect, and will impose a penalty if the train is not either brought under speed, or a sufficent brake application made to bring the train under speed within the same 4-6 seconds. I just wonder, because the equipment run has ATC, and requires a minimum 17 lb reduction to prevent a penalty when you are overspeed. That would seem to be quite the reduction to make on a large train, but granted, I run short passenger trains, so I dont have much experience in freight.

sirsonic wrote:
>
> On a somewhat related note, I have been wondering something,
> and would like to know. What type of cab signal system do the
> ex-CR cab signals, or any freight locomotives for that matter,
> actually have? Do they simply have ATS (Automatic Train Stop),
> which will impose a penalty application if a cab signal change
> to a less favorable indication in not acknowledged in 4-6
> seconds? Or do they have ATC (Automatic Train Control) which
> in addition to the ATS functions, imposes a speed limit on a
> particular cab signal aspect, and will impose a penalty if the
> train is not either brought under speed, or a sufficent brake
> application made to bring the train under speed within the same
> 4-6 seconds.

It all depends on what CR equipped them with. The CSS-only units have automatic train stop... where the cab signal equipment onboard will initiate a penalty brake application if the more restrictive aspect is not acknowledged within 6 seconds. Units with the full LSL/CSS "UltraCab" package have the Automatic Train Control as described above. Each CSS indication has a maximum speed assigned to it, and exceeding it for too long will result in a penalty application. The penalty "timer" will increase the time to penalty if it senses the speed dropping... whether using the air or dynamics.