Eastern Railroad Discussion > Muncie, IN unhappy with planned CSX speed increase

CSX plans to increase speeds of trains through Muncie, Indiana, to 60mph.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121204/NEWS/212040316/Muncie-fight-plans-trains-zip-through-60-mph?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com&nclick_check=1

Kim Heusel

Leave it to the newspaper to use a photo of a Kansas City Southern powered train in a story about CSX. Typical BS from a city mayor. Don't block our streets with slow moving trains, but don't speed them up, and we want grade crossing safety, but don't close any crossings. If I were CSX, I'd tell him to pound sand.

junctiontower Wrote:
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> Leave it to the newspaper to use a photo of a
> Kansas City Southern powered train in a story
> about CSX.

It's what they had. Assignment desk probably sent a photographer out to "get a picture of a train on CSX," and that's what he or she brought back. Given how sparse daytime traffic can be on the Bee Line and the economic realities of the news business, the newspaper probably can't afford to have a photog sitting by the tracks all day waiting for the perfect train. Back in 1996 I requested a photo of a Conrail train for a 20th anniversary story, and what was taken was a picture of a Trailer Train flat car with trailers on it.

Regarding Muncie's speed ordinance, precedent suggests it won't hold up in court if the city fathers decide to fight. Railroads have successfully fought city-imposed speed ordinances elsewhere. They should be happy the railroad wants to get its trains across local crossings faster, and teach their citizens not to take stupid risks crossing the tracks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/12 07:42 by toledopatch.

With two diamonds in town i wouldn't expect it to stay 60 mph for long before slow orders start coming out. For anyone not familiar with Munice. CSX has a double track mainline though town. NS parallels CSX downtown munice on the north side with two connecting tracks that cross CSX at sharp angles. Most NS trains travel north-south though town so the connection track to the east is more of a mainline than a connection.
I would think that the diamonds being at acute angles would require more maintenance than a 90 degree crossing. NS would never allow OWLS diamonds, I would think that high speed cross overs between lines would be the best way to speed up trains though town.

1-2. Westbound CSX approching east diamond.
3. Southbound NS approching east diamond.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/12 09:45 by howeld.

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CSX keeps the Greenwich, OH diamonds in rather good shape. At least 40 mph is typical.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> It's what they had. Assignment desk probably sent
> a photographer out to "get a picture of a train on
> CSX," and that's what he or she brought back.
> Given how sparse daytime traffic can be on the Bee
> Line and the economic realities of the news
> business, the newspaper probably can't afford to
> have a photog sitting by the tracks all day
> waiting for the perfect train. Back in 1996 I
> requested a photo of a Conrail train for a 20th
> anniversary story, and what was taken was a
> picture of a Trailer Train flat car with trailers
> on it.

Well my first thought was "Why wouldn't the newspaper have some stock photos of the largest railroad in town?" Thought two was "Why couldn't they go to CSX's website for some pictures?", but unlike Norfolk Southern, CSX doesn't seem to have a usable photos on their website. My third thought was, "why not contact the CSX media relations department and ask then to send a photo?". I know most people would say, "it's a picture of a train, who cares", but would they run a photo of a house fire in a story about a forest fire and say "It's a picture of a fire, what difference does it make?". If the Indy Star was going to do a story on Eli Lilly (huge local employer) would they run a photo of a Pfizer factory? On a story about the Colts, would they run a picture of a Bengals player? Someone once told me that the big picture was made from a lot of little pictures, and if the little pictures are out of focus, the big picture is useless. That what sticks in my mind when I see lazy attention to detail like this. If this was a story on Lindsey Lohan, or so some scandal involving some local celebrity, the photo department would no doubt go to whatever length necessary to get relevant photos.

junctiontower Wrote:
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>
> Well my first thought was "Why wouldn't the
> newspaper have some stock photos of the largest
> railroad in town?" Thought two was "Why couldn't
> they go to CSX's website for some pictures?", but
> unlike Norfolk Southern, CSX doesn't seem to have
> a usable photos on their website. My third
> thought was, "why not contact the CSX media
> relations department and ask then to send a
> photo?". I know most people would say, "it's a
> picture of a train, who cares", but would they run
> a photo of a house fire in a story about a forest
> fire and say "It's a picture of a fire, what
> difference does it make?". If the Indy Star was
> going to do a story on Eli Lilly (huge local
> employer) would they run a photo of a Pfizer
> factory? On a story about the Colts, would they
> run a picture of a Bengals player? Someone once
> told me that the big picture was made from a lot
> of little pictures, and if the little pictures are
> out of focus, the big picture is useless. That
> what sticks in my mind when I see lazy attention
> to detail like this. If this was a story on
> Lindsey Lohan, or so some scandal involving some
> local celebrity, the photo department would no
> doubt go to whatever length necessary to get
> relevant photos.

They did use a picture of a CSX train in Muncie. It just happened to be pulled by some KCS locomotives. I thought it was kind of funny that they used the picture they did, but it is a CSX train. At least the paper didn't call it a Kansas City Southern train. I see your point, but I can't call what the paper did "lazy." The photographer got a shot of a CSX train coming through Muncie. It's highly probable that these same or similar locomotives or locomotives from other roads will be pulling other CSX trains and likely Norfolk Southern trains through Muncie in the future.

Kim Heusel

It was train Q107. Has KCS power quite often.

Responding to toledopatch, junctiontower wrote, in part:
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> If the Indy Star was
> going to do a story on Eli Lilly (huge local
> employer) would they run a photo of a Pfizer
> factory? On a story about the Colts, would they
> run a picture of a Bengals player?

Personally, I believe they'd do it in a heartbeat if they thought nobody would know the difference. I've seen local NBC news in the DC-area (with Soledad O'Brien, no less) run a story on a TWA plane crash with an accompanying pic of a Pan Am jet. Ignorance (meaning the people at NBC can't tell the difference between the two carriers)? Just sloppy? Or did someone figure the public either didn't know or didn't care (which, were this the case, implicitly tells us just what NBC News thinks of the its viewing public)? Moreover, the (perhaps quaint) notion that the standards of big-city outlets and their viewers are higher than those of tank town outlets (sorry, Muncie-ites, nothing personal; I'm merely reflecting the inside-the-beltway notion that DC --big-city -- offerings are superior, more sophisticated, etc.). This is parochial bunk. Moreover, my inherent cynicism presumes the last -- that the media hold their listening/viewing/reading audience in a kind of unspoken contempt, grounded in the notion that "we" (the journalists) know it all and provide the public with what we want.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/12 10:10 by billio.

Who takes care of maintenance on the diamonds?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/12 10:27 by farmer.

KimHeusel Wrote:
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> They did use a picture of a CSX train in Muncie.
> It just happened to be pulled by some KCS
> locomotives. I thought it was kind of funny that
> they used the picture they did, but it is a CSX
> train. At least the paper didn't call it a Kansas
> City Southern train. I see your point, but I can't
> call what the paper did "lazy." The photographer
> got a shot of a CSX train coming through Muncie.
> It's highly probable that these same or similar
> locomotives or locomotives from other roads will
> be pulling other CSX trains and likely Norfolk
> Southern trains through Muncie in the future.
>

Yes, I figured it was CSX train, and if the story had been more generic in railroad content I wouldn't have gave it too much thought, but the story was specifically about CSX and their plans for Muncie. To me, that means you need a photo that accurately represents the exact company in question. If they were doing a story on the number of holiday airline travellers, likely any modern airplane photo would do. If you are doing a story about American and their employee pension plan, then you better have a picture of an American plane, and it be BETTER NOT be American Eagle either!
> Kim Heusel

I did notice three actual errors in the story regarding crossings. It mentioned four crossings in town, but one of the roads -- Indiana 32 -- doesn't intersect CSX at all in Muncie, another -- Tillotson Ave. -- passes over the tracks on an overpass, and a third -- Madison -- passes under the tracks through an underpass.

Kim Heusel



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/12 12:03 by KimHeusel.

A few years ago a train on the Louisville and Indianapolis Railroad was involved in a grade crossing accident. I think it was a CSX train but it had a LTEX leader on it. The news reported that an LTEX train hit a truck, or something like that. Atleast they got the location correct.

John

It's a CSX train in Muncie, give it a rest.

I can't even begin to tell you how hard I'm laughing at this.

One word comes to mind in all of this: Ignorance.

As far as the speed increase, 40mph is what I would consider a comfortable thing for both the railroad (crew-wise) and the city.

Being a person that's chased trains and foamed everywhere in Muncie, the two crossings in question that the city wanted open by NS are really not needed at all. It's more redundant crossings that don't need to be there that the city probably won't even need or use.

If you sit in town long enough at any given crossing in Muncie, I'm sure you can watch cars running the crossing. Both CSX and NS. 4-quadrant crossing protection if CSX wants to go 60mph would be my call. I'd feel safe with it anyways.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> junctiontower Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Leave it to the newspaper to use a photo of a
> > Kansas City Southern powered train in a story
> > about CSX.
>
> It's what they had. Assignment desk probably sent
> a photographer out to "get a picture of a train on
> CSX," and that's what he or she brought back.

Reminds me of a (non-rail related) story. Seems as though a city boy working for a rural college newspaper was sent out to get a picture of a prize winning bull. He was told to get a photo of the "sire of the herd." He came back with a photo of the guy who ran the dairy barn.

Are there any other diamonds on CSX that are still rated for 60mph? If there are, I don't know of it. Highly unlikely this would be the exception.

chris

wa4umr Wrote:
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> A few years ago a train on the Louisville and
> Indianapolis* Railroad was involved in a grade
> crossing accident. I think it was a CSX train but
> it had a LTEX** leader on it. The news reported
> that an LTEX** train hit a truck, or something like
> that. Atleast they got the location correct.
>
> John


*Louisville and Indiana

**GMTX?

Howeld has made the point that will prevent 60 mph; the two oblique diamonds with NS. With the wide gap in the running rail at oblique frogs, the heavy weight on each of eight wheels on a 160 ton (gross)car (double what it was in the 1950's) will hammer the diamonds apart in a matter of weeks. Unless movable point frogs are installed, 60mph will not happen!

Whoever the CSX officials are that want to implament the 60mph speed limit through Muncie hasn't paid a visit to muncie. Beacause for such a "so-called" safety minded industry that is prone to BIG liability problems (Look what UP is going through in Texas) you would think that they would do a traffic/grade crossing study.
I hope they realize the HUGE dangers of 60mph trains through Muncie. I,m very familier with the Muncie area, one of my best freinds is an engineer on the "B" line and he is the first one to tell me about it and my first reaction was thats just crazy. if anyone has spent any time at a Muncie grade crossing they have probobly seen a near miss, AND THAT'S AT 35mph.!!!
...,On this issue I kinda have to side with the city. Hopefully the city and CSX can work out a safe agreement such a quad-gates, but like others have said most likely there will be a "permenent" 40mph slow order on the dimonds.

BTW,...For those who asked, last I knew CSX maintained the diamonds, and NS controlled them.

,SEAN