Eastern Railroad Discussion > Hypothetical Question (The Fall Of Amtrak)

O.K. I know this should be on the Amtrak board, but this is more of a hypothetical question for our current frieght railroads. Now hypothetically if Amtrak was never formed (or in light of current news, should fail) and passenger rail travel was left to the railroads where would we be now?

No Passenger travel at all........
Limited Travel on some roads......

Or could it be possible that handing passenger travel back to the frieght railroads might be a good thing over time. I mean seriously (I know that it would really screw up freight traffic in the begining) that over a period of a couple of years that the roads might find limited passenger trains profitable if marketed correctly like in the old days. I'd kind of like to see the CSX Empire Builder myself.

What do you guys think?

If Amtrak hadn't been created, we would now have no intercity passenger rail service. Rio Grande, Southern, maybe Santa Fe would have stayed in it for a while, but UP, NS, and BNSF would have been out of it a long time ago. You can't compete against subsidized competition. Without some sort of taxpayer support (highways, waterways, and airports and air traffic control systems), no one can make money hauling passengers. NOBODY.

Bryan

One possibility would be the end of
passenger service except for the
Washington - New York corridor.
This is probably the only route
that would have the volume of
riders necessary to cover costs
without government subsidies.

You would be better off giving the freights the subsidy rather than creating a know nothing, do nothing organization like AMTRAK!

The freights won't touch it. The exposure to liability is just too huge.

While I don't think anyone would make enough money to want to get involved, anyone that could implement a long-range plan for Amtrak could do better than the current system. Amtrak simply is not allowed (funding) to market its services properly.

Our Gov't at work.

Liabiliity is easy to resolve, let Congress cap it just like was done in the Conrail long bridge decision that allowed VRE access to DC. They did it for HMO's why not RR's. But since the DEMs in the Senate are in the pocket of the trial lawyers do't hold your breath.

"Our Gov't at work"

Our Government is made up of all of us and that includes people who like Amtrak and want to expand it and those who wish to kill it. So far it's been a stand off between the two. That’s probably why todays Amtrak is the mess that it is.
I'm sorry to see you feel so alienated from your Government and your country that you blame them for every shortcoming you see.
By the way private enterprise also makes at least as many mistakes as Government does and their mistakes also cost everyone in the society.
There is probably plenty of blame to go around, everyone can probably have as big a piece as they want.
Finger pointing doesn’t do anyone any good and it doesn’t change anything.

Amtrak's been through a dozen managers (many who had been very successful private sector managers in the past), both political parties in power, fast trains, slow trains, freight and who knows what else in the past 25 years and at the end of every year the story is the same...more big operating losses.

Love it or hate it, you can't legislate demand. With the worlds' best highways and relatively dependable and cheap air service in this country, the masses just aren't that interested in rail travel. No manager, no amount of additional funding, no billion dollar high speed train (that will not be cheaper or more convenient than the airplane and will still take 3 times as long) is going to be Amtrak's magic bullet!

From what I'm hearing today on the news, it appears that after a quarter of a century, the sad final reality might have been realized...there just aren't enough people willing to take the train to make it a business. I'm sure someone out there was unhappy when they made the last 8 track tape player, but I'm sure glad that the government didn't use my tax dollars to subsidize it's continued use and production. Same is true here...the masses have spoken...and they're not interested in riding the train!

One thing Amtrak can boast in the Northeast is that the highways are jammed and that 6 of the 7 major airports here (BOS, JFK, LGA, EWR,
PHL, DCA) are prone to huge ATC delays and when the weather is really bad, BOS is down to one runway for both take off and landings. Meanwhile the NE Corridor keeps moving right along on their own tracks. It cost less for Amtrak to lay a mile of track than it does
for a mile of new highway and is way cheaper than runaway expansion.

Passenger service never was and never will be a money maker but in the grand scheme of things with gridlock in the skies and on the roads
it maybe a better option for the future.