Eastern Railroad Discussion > Empty stone on Amtk & oil update

My purpose this morning was to see what is new relative to rail access for proposed oil train visits. But I was surprised to overtake an empty stone train along I-495 at Hollyoak. I got to Marcus Hook Septa station but had to park in the lot too close to the tracks because of other parked cars. Train was on 1 track, the closest. Had 9715-7657-8327 and 84 cars including three regular gons. if anyone else sees it and can verify unit nubers I'd appreciate it. This is 67T or 67J? I can never keep it straight. A rare daylight freight on this portion of Amtk.

At the old Conoco Phillips refinery supposed to be used by Delta Airlines to make jet fuel, and get inbound crude by rail, there is no evidence of the switchback spur to the oil racks being used. Flangeways still full of stone. I know they have gotten some barges, maybe from Delaware City, more on that later.

I went to the park and saw Liberian flagged Aframax GHIBLI (112,961 dwt) swinging with the tide. Later, passing on Rt 13 thru the old Sunoco refinery I noticed an NS boxcar in the place and some tankers that looked like ethanol/crude size cars. But it would be very hard to tell if they are unloading either because you'd have to get into the place.

At the road crossing into Pigeon Point they have made a lot of progress in adding the second track south of the Honda facility too where? Maybe at least to Twin Bridges. The new road crossing was in and it looks like both tracks have been raised a foot. It is very low here. Ther was a female guard there but when I said I wanted to take pictures she said 'shoot away'. She needed someone to talk to, I think.

Finally went to DelCity as we call it. Actually its Reybold on the railroad as the town of Delaware City is two miles southeast. They are making a lot of progress on the double loop unloading tracks. You can see a lot of it where Schoolhouse Road meets Upper Twin Lane Road, which is also next to Route One. Fruther along big concrete pits
are being built about the middle of the loop, I presume this will be where they drain the tank cars, probably several at a time on each track. At the crossing at NS's trailer were two six axles that were switching and maybe ready to head out with tanks and coke CH's. Took pics, no one said anything.

I'd really like to know the track configuration of these loops. It does not look like they are using all the space because the field next to the road opposite NS's trailer is not touched. This would allow for even longer trains.

I still do not understand why the out of patent Tank train technology is not being used for these North Dakota crude trains. but some newer tank cars are 31,000 gallon 286K GWR cars.

Nothing to add, but thanks for the detailed on the ground report

I bet Delta is going to learn a hard lesson with that refinery business. There is an uneasy relationship between the refiners and the airlines and I think Delta is stepping outside the envelope. Now they might do well, or they might generate a punishing response from the refiners for the other fuel they need. I doubt of a single refinery can provide all the fuel needed by the country's largest airline.

Time will tell.

a737flyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I bet Delta is going to learn a hard lesson with
> that refinery business. There is an uneasy
> relationship between the refiners and the airlines
> and I think Delta is stepping outside the
> envelope. Now they might do well, or they might
> generate a punishing response from the refiners
> for the other fuel they need. I doubt of a single
> refinery can provide all the fuel needed by the
> country's largest airline.
>
> Time will tell.

Time will definitely tell.

The investment community is also looking at this deal with some skepticism.

Delta got a fabulous deal, with union concessions, state money and training assistance, tax credits, etc. They dramatically lowered the cost of production in an old, tired plant. The way the oil business works, they can put fuel into the system at point A, and withdraw a similar amount elsewhere. They've hired good people, experienced in the industry to do the job.

But, the oil business has eaten a lot of smart guys, and chewed up billions in investments. They still have a less efficient plant than some competitors, even with the improvements. And, Delta is way out of its zone of expertise.

The way I see it, they bought an expensive partial hedge for jet fuel they know they will need and burn as long as they're in business. I'm not invested in the deal, although I do own MPC, VLO and HFC, all competitors of Delta's refinery.

Richard Anderson is no idiot. They will do just fine with this venture. Oil companies don't get spiteful, and fight with one-another.
They work together all the time. They trade refined product back and forth, to save transportation costs. You think that if you are at an Exxon station, that gas came from an Exxon refinery? Guess again. The Govt has accused them of being a little too cozy before....

And another thing (dooooogh!!!!), you can't crack a barrel of crude into 100% kerosene...So delta will have folks from the Petro industry running this operation, as they will need to crack the crude efficiently, and sell off the other by-products, or trade them around.

tp117 Wrote:
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>
> I still do not understand why the out of patent
> Tank train technology is not being used for these
> North Dakota crude trains. but some newer tank
> cars are 31,000 gallon 286K GWR cars.

The Leasing companies won't buy them unless they have a customer who will commit to lease them long enough to cover the purchase price, and many of the Oil Companies are probably think that they will move Oil by Rail for 2-3 years, just long enough to pay off the cheaper cars. There are not enough people in the Oil Logistics business with enough experience with rail to consider cycle times. And the final reason is that many of the the cars are owned or leased by Logistics Companies that may not send the cars to the same terminals on consecutive trips, so unless all loading terminals can handle the TankTrain system it is a disadvantage rather than an advantage. The single car unloading system is a common denominator for all terminals, except for the one in the LA area.

That makes sense SOO6617. Tank-Train loading and unloading does require special terminals.

Today's local paper said the Trainor plant will start receiving N Dakota crude in 2013. It will be interesting to see how they handle it with the existing switchback access with diamonds over the access line to reach racks that may be able to handle eight cars on both tracks. I'll check on it every month or so.

As to the other comments, I hear on my scanner barge units moving between various oil refineries and terminals all the time. Also, I was told by a nearby well known model railroader whose father owned an oil distribution company that the only company that refined, transported and sold its own gas at retail outlets was Sunoco. But that probably has changed too with their desire to exit refining.

Bakken oil is now being processed at Delta's Trainer refinery.

http://www.aircargoworld.com/Air-Cargo-News/2013/02/delta-receives-first-bakken-crude-shipment-at-refinery/2112399

>>Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc said on Monday it is expects to produce 40,000 barrels-per-day (bpd) at its 185,000 bpd Trainer, Pennsylvania refinery by the end of the year, a lower rate than a goal first proposed when it bought the refinery last year.<<

More-

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/04/delta-refinery-idUSL1N0BWHCF20130304