Eastern Railroad Discussion > SOU Railway operating Q:

On the morning of Oct 28, 1976 I was aboard the American Freedom Train. We departed Charlotte NC at about 2am headed for Raleigh NC. We made the entire run showing green markers and flying green flags. At the time I had assumed we were 1st #2 (Southern Crescent), but in researching this a bit, this assumption was probably wrong. #2 would have been 2 hours AHEAD of us. Maybe they were late that night, but even if that were true, The Southern Crescent didn't serve Raleigh- we would have no longer been 1st #2 after clearing Greensboro anyway!
Does anyone have an explanation? Did the Southern maybe have a scheduled freight that followed that route?
Thanks
SR Bush
Dutch Flat

The photo is of the train in Raleigh that morning. The flags are a little hard to make out, but the US flags are in the lower position because of the green flags up by the markers (normally the US flags were flown in the upper position on the 4449.

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I believe that by that time, Charlotte-Greensboro was 100% CTC so there was no reason to worry about sections on that part of the run. However, Greensboro-Fetner was a dark railroad under TT&TO authority in those days. Beyond Greensboro I suspect your train ran as the first section of some freight that was in the timetable for Greensboro-Fetner. (There were no Greensboro-Raleigh passenger trains between 1964 and 1985.) Between Fetner and Raleigh there was D-251.

Perhaps the engineer and conductor just didn't want to have to stop at Greensboro to deploy the green.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/14 14:08 by ctillnc.

Interesting. What is D-251? We, of course, had a pilot crew calling the shots- would that same crew have made the entire move, or would there have been a crew change at Greensboro?
SR

BoilingMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting. What is D-251? We, of course, had
> a pilot crew calling the shots- would that same
> crew have made the entire move, or would there
> have been a crew change at Greensboro?


Charlotte to Spencer would have been crewed by a Piedmont Division crew. Spencer to Greensboro, and Greensboro to Raleigh, were probably different Eastern Division crews.

D-251 refers to the rule in the book of operating rules describing double-track, block-signaled operations.

Greensboro to Fetner (MP73.0) was single track, dark territory. Fetner is the west end of 7.9 miles of joint trackage with Seaboard Coast Line, dispatched by SCL, ending at Raleigh Tower (MP80.9) used by Southern.

In the 1981 timetable, Greensboro - Raleigh had two eastbound second-class schedules. Train 184 was authorized to depart Greensboro at 9:30am, and arrive Raleigh at 1:20pm. Train 150 was authorized at 9:30pm, and arrive Raleigh at 1:20am. There are corresponding westbounds.

In timetable and train order operation, a schedule is 'alive' until it's fulfilled, annulled by train order, or lapsed after 12 hours. (In other words, a scheduled train that over 12 hours late loses its operating authority and must clear the main track.)

This sets up a situation where, instead of being dispatched as a 3rd-class extra train, any train departing Greensboro going east to Raleigh between 9:30am and 9:30pm can be assigned "Nth Section of Train 184," and any train departing Greensboro going east to Raleigh between 9:30pm and 9:30am can be assigned "Nth Section of Train 150."

I'm guessing this is a trick designed to elevate the status of Southern trains when operating on SCL.

I can scan employee timetable pages for you if you're interested.

I'm chronicling my AFT time over on the Railroaders Nostalgia page and I write the stories a few weeks in advance. In the process of writing it out, I come across things like this, and use the time before posting (the stories are posted by calendar date) to track down answers. Most of the time I can "Google around" for answers, or call old fellow AFTers- but this one had me stumped, so I'm asking the TO community for help. There is so much learn- even 38yrs later!
Any, and all, info is appreciated!
SR

Running trains as sections rather than extras in Timetable and Train Order Territory makes life much easier on the crews and dispatcher. With schedules there is a built in "checks and balances" system, so to speak, which helps eliminate the possibility overlooking a train on train orders and line-ups. Not so with an extra train. Many a miscue has occurred involving extra trains over the years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/14 19:18 by Rathole.

So, if I'm following this right: Between Charlotte and Greensboro it really made no difference whether we carried green, white, or no flags- they were mute because we were in CTC territory. But the flags DID take on their importance once we'd left Greensboro for Raleigh, where they signified we were running as the first section of a freight train that appeared in the time table.
Is that about right?
Thanks
SR Bush
Dutch Flat

BoilingMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, if I'm following this right: Between
> Charlotte and Greensboro it really made no
> difference whether we carried green, white, or no
> flags- they were mute because we were in CTC
> territory. But the flags DID take on their
> importance once we'd left Greensboro for Raleigh,
> where they signified we were running as the first
> section of a freight train that appeared in the
> time table.
> Is that about right?

Yes, with one minor correction.

If you left Charlotte around 2am, you probably got to Greenville by 5am, so you probably ran as "Nth 150." You can't say for certain that you ran as "1st 150" - it's possible you were 2nd or even 3rd section. (I don't know how busy that line was in 1976.)

The only thing you can say for certain is that the dispatcher left his options open to send another train behind you on the same schedule. It's possible there was no following section - the dispatcher could annul the schedule by train order after you arrived Raleigh.

Very interesting, really!
For the record- We were scheduled into Greensboro at 5:30a, and out at 6:15a. (The '49 took water there)
I don't know how well we held to this itinerary, but it's probably pretty close. The AFT didn't run at track speed, we were officially limited to 45mph because of the museum displays aboard. Doyle may have cheated on this a little to hit a "sweet spot" of balance for the 4449 from time to time.
Thank you for your explanations
SR

He couldn't have cheated much between Greensboro and Fetner because the railroad was 49 mph max. (59 mph running was dropped from the employee timetable after the last passenger train was discontinued in 1964.)

Whoa! I didn't mean to even IMPLY he would violate local track speed!
I only ment to explain why our running time from Charlotte to Greensboro was longer than the writer had figured.
And also as a general statement to anyone who may have remembered having clocked us at a speed somewhat greater than 45.
SR