Eastern Railroad Discussion > The High Line questions

I recently visited New York and walked the high line http://www.thehighline.org/ . Unfortunately the section round the rail yards hadn't opened (it opens late September) but if you haven't done so already I can reccomend it. It's a linear park with hints of the railroad past but I also felt it gave me a different way of looking at the urban environment.

Now for the questions.

1) We purchased a book on the design of the park which has a couple of pictures which suggest the line was electrified (3rd rail) at least in part. However, the vast majority of pictures shown no sign of electrification. So, was it electrified?
2) Can anyone reccomend a book on the high line as a railroad or maybe of a wider themed book which has at least a chapter (as opposed to a few passing mentions)?

Here, if you would like, I've got some photos of the High Line around 14th Street in the old meat-packing district. http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,3458872,3458951#msg-3458951

Oh, and I believe that, to answer the electrification question, that is not 3rd rail, that is gantlet track. Gantlet track, often used at industrial loadout docks and commuter rail station platforms, is a 4-rail track which allows trains that are not stopping at the station or loadout to pass by without banging any cars on the close platform. However, when a train wishes to stop, it can cross over to the other pair of rails and load passengers or freight right from the platform. The High Line is peppered with old industrial loadouts so it doesn't surprise me that it used gantlet track liberally.

Tor in Eugene, Oregon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/14 07:36 by Torisgod.

Torisgod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and I believe that, to answer the
> electrification question, that is not 3rd rail,
> that is gantlet track. Gantlet track, often used
> at industrial loadout docks and commuter rail
> station platforms, is a 4-rail track which allows
> trains that are not stopping at the station or
> loadout to pass by without banging any cars on the
> close platform. However, when a train wishes to
> stop, it can cross over to the other pair of rails
> and load passengers or freight right from the
> platform. The High Line is peppered with old
> industrial loadouts so it doesn't surprise me that
> it used gantlet track liberally.

The track in the restored sections of the high line has been completely rebuilt "for exhibition purposes only." It is not the same as what was originally in place.

Ray

Hartington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) We purchased a book on the design of the park
> which has a couple of pictures which suggest the
> line was electrified (3rd rail) at least in part.
> However, the vast majority of pictures shown no
> sign of electrification. So, was it electrified?

Yes: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3323/3250737625_6c27d4032f_b.jpg

That photo shows electrified a pair of '3rd rails' between the tracks, the running rails, and a guard rail between the running rails.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3025/3251565978_7426954105_b.jpg

That photo shows the boxcab locomotives used on the line. These engines had an oil-electric engine, and batteries, and could take power from a 3rd rail.

http://modellismotropea.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/la-highline-di-new-york.html and scroll down to black and white photo number 4 of locomotive 8350. Was this taken on the high line? If it was then it appears to show a covered third rail, not a gauntlet or guard rail.

The picture of the RS-3 is on the east-west alignment of the track at 30th Street (facing east). I have read that the 3rd rail electrification only extended to this point, and not farther south.

The elevated structure extending east of where the High Line Park now curves off to the south is still in place, but I don't know if they plan to include it in the park, too.


Ray

Ray_Murphy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The picture of the RS-3 is on the east-west
> alignment of the track at 30th Street (facing
> east). I have read that the 3rd rail
> electrification only extended to this point, and
> not farther south.
>
> The elevated structure extending east of where the
> High Line Park now curves off to the south is
> still in place, but I don't know if they plan to
> include it in the park, too.
>
>
> Ray

The spur which once ran into the Post Office Annex has been shown in a number of vintage pictures with Alco and other switchers, but I've never seen a picture with a third rail equipped engine there.

Great question.

Interesting post, thanks. I'll be in NYC the 25Th & 26Th this month. Besides doing Empire State Building, Rockefeller Center, Times Square, NYC Fire Museum, 911 Museum & Memorial, and Engine 10/Ladder 10 quarters mural, I am planning on walking the High Line from the northern end to the southern end. Also, I purposely choose to stay two nights just outside Poughkeepsie, NY in order to ride Metro North down alongside of the river into NYC. It looks like it might be a fairly scenic 95 minute ride.

I was hoping there might be a book or two available for purchase somewhere along the High Line. Always thought this was a fascinating little stretch of railroading in its day.

Thanks for the info and the photos folks.

The northern section around the railyards opens on the 21st. I think it will be a dead end so allow time to walk up and back on that section.

As you get towards the southern end (around 16th St) it goes through a building and there are several vendors there (mainly food). The Friends of the High Line sell a range of books there but I didn't see any about the railroad history (which is why I'm asking here!).

Hartington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The northern section around the railyards opens on
> the 21st. I think it will be a dead end so allow
> time to walk up and back on that section.
>
> As you get towards the southern end (around 16th
> St) it goes through a building and there are
> several vendors there (mainly food). The Friends
> of the High Line sell a range of books there but I
> didn't see any about the railroad history (which
> is why I'm asking here!).


I found this:


http://www.kinglyheirs.com/NewYorkStateRailroads/WestSideFreight1.html#.VBdqU8ItDbg


In all that reading it does mention electrification down to 30th street. I'm assuming this "West Side Freight Line" is the High Line.

RS11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hartington Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The northern section around the railyards opens
> on
> > the 21st. I think it will be a dead end so
> allow
> > time to walk up and back on that section.
> >
> > As you get towards the southern end (around
> 16th
> > St) it goes through a building and there are
> > several vendors there (mainly food). The
> Friends
> > of the High Line sell a range of books there but
> I
> > didn't see any about the railroad history
> (which
> > is why I'm asking here!).
>
>
> I found this:
>
>
> http://www.kinglyheirs.com/NewYorkStateRailroads/W
> estSideFreight1.html#.VBdqU8ItDbg
>
>
> In all that reading it does mention
> electrification down to 30th street. I'm assuming
> this "West Side Freight Line" is the High Line.


It's an interesting group of links. There's also a mention that R class electrics operated below 72nd street, and that "tri-motors" operated at St John's Park terminal

RS11 Wrote:
> In all that reading it does mention
> electrification down to 30th street. I'm assuming
> this "West Side Freight Line" is the High Line.

That would be the NYC's West Side Line, leading down along the Hudson to a big facility at 72nd Street (see the photo). From there, the tracks continued south, eventually becoming street tracks in 10th and 11th avenues. It was the initiative to get rid of the street trackage that led to the construction of the High Line. The West Side Line continues to serve: that's where some Amtrak trains to Penn Station run.

Ray

---

One book with a short chapter on the High Line is George Drury's "New York Central in the Hudson Valley." This was one of Kalmbach's Golden Years of Railroading series and has been out of print for some time. You may be able to find it at a train show, on Amazon or buy it through a second-hand book seller.

The Empire connection is Amtrak line from Penn Station to Albany and Chicago. Manhattan could use another downtown freight connection... CSX gets down to oak point in the Bronx but all the land for rail yards is now multi million dollar condos on the west side. Too many trucks clogging the city streets and major pollution problem needs an old style solution like the high line.

Posted from Android

Krail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Empire connection is Amtrak line from Penn
> Station to Albany and Chicago. Manhattan could use
> another downtown freight connection... CSX gets
> down to oak point in the Bronx but all the land
> for rail yards is now multi million dollar condos
> on the west side. Too many trucks clogging the
> city streets and major pollution problem needs an
> old style solution like the high line.
>
> Posted from Android

Manhattan's old manufacturing base has largely hollowed out in the past 60 years. There are fewer and fewer meat packing places in the Meat Packing District, though lots of trendy clubs and expensive restaurants. Much of the garment industry has been outsourced, as has publishing, among other old business employers.

Many of today's trucks service the food industry in Manhattan, often late at night. Or deliver fresh uniforms and laundry, towels, etc to hotels and restaurants. Even the Brooklyn ship docks are a faint shadow of themselves, as all or most of the container business has moved to Port Newark / Port Elizabeth and the easy access to trains and trucks there.