Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSX & NS "Attendance Policies?"

See my thread on the Western Board: "Curious: BNSF Attendance Policies?" at
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,3532854 over there. For comparison with the Western carriers.

As the UPRR's current practice is to bring an employee in for investigation for laying off 6 days out of 90 days (3 months). Not in practice when I retired not that long ago, but, within the past year-and-a-half ago or so. Seems pretty steep to me, but when this came up on the Western Board awhile back, a CSX hoghead said that he'd gladly "trade in CSX policy for what the UPRR has?!?" Which indicates that it must indeed be pretty rough on the CSX? And taking into consideration that the average U.S. Worker gets 24 days off every 3 months?!? I realize that the FRA has imposed some mandatory rest days if an employee works 6 consecutive days/nights, and no more working every 8 hours (now 10 hours undisturbed rest). But anybody that works unscheduled chain gangs knows that a hoghead or conductor not on a yard job might well get off 26 "accidental/unplanned hours" when expecting to get out, and this resets the clock for the FRA-Mandated two off days after working six consecutive. Plus, there has never been any union agreement (what a big joke--THAT) for mandatory attendance, especially at this level.

All thoughts welcome, even from those that feel that railroaders should work like slaves to contribute to the Bottom Line more efficiently, be glad that they "just have a J-O-B," and etc. Yes, there have always been those that have abused the layoff privileges. But the carriers seem to have pushed this to an extreme that existed before unionization even existed, IMHO, and, beyond the limits of safety. Me? I loved my railroad career. Would I do it over again if I were young again and facing the current environment? NO.

The weakness of the unions is readily apparent when it appears they pretty much run and hide over these draconian attendance policies.

The attendance policy sucks, no doubt about it. However, when guys hire on they are expected to work full-time and usually more. There are no policies that allow job sharing, working four ten hour shifts, or three twelve hour shifts.

Likewise, the railroad cannot cut you back to part time. If they annul your job one day, for instance, you are allowed to bump off of it that very minute.

Nowadays, men have wives with good jobs, and guys enjoy sharing the child rearing. So it is nice to have the chance to do that. but the contract is the contract and both sides must abide by it. Too many guys were marking off too much.

I think trying some new work patterns is a topic worthy of discussion at the bargaining table.

The southern half of CSX is on the bid system, you bid on jobs every week that take affect just after midnight Saturday mornings. No more bumping and getting bumped and playing that game for time off. Yard jobs have set days off, usually 2 per week, same for locals. Road extraboards either have 1 day off per week or 2 days together every 2 weeks. Unassigned freight pools have no days off, but are usually controlled by the union so as to keep guys working. May or may not result in frequently getting your 6 or 7 starts then FRA off days. Some places may have assigned road jobs, for example a 3-sided one where you work train Qxxx north and train Qyyy south and have the 3rd day off. Usually high seniority unless you are lucky to have a terminal with several of these.

But you only learn your job award Thursday after 6pm (maybe early if you can access company computers) for a 00:01 Saturday effective date. So don't think the bid system allows you to plan very much unless you have lots of seniority. 2 week jobs instead of 1 week would make a lot of sense, but there's always some baloney excuses for why it can't happen (from both the company and the union side).

You are allowed 1 day off sick per 28 days without a note, otherwise you need a note from an emergency room or urgent care clinic (personal doctor isn't good enough.) Some areas are now allowing other doctor's notes to be considered, but medical won't let you know if it is good until after the fact and it can also be used by the company as a fishing expedition for more of your health records. So you could easily get burned after the fact into an attendance letter.

Attendance letters roll off after 6 months with no more unexcused absences, so some guys will take off up to a week for Christmas and then not mark off sick for 6 months. IIRC, if you are off more than a week straight you have to go thru CSX medical for an exam.

A few other ways to get time off:

Once every 2 weeks you can drop your turn to the bottom of the board. Affects guarantee and may not buy you much time if the xboard or pool is tight at the moment.

You can call and request up to 24 hours off for personal business, I think once every 2 weeks. Up to CMC's discretion, they might grant 24 hours or 12 hours or none, sometimes fair, sometimes ridiculous. Easiest to get Mon & Tue, but when it is slow I've seen multiple guys in a terminal get it on a Friday or Saturday.

You get so many personal days per year based on seniority, and can also convert your vacation into daily vacation days. To use these you have to put in a request in advance, and only a few slots per day are allowed based on the size of the terminal. Weekend days often go within a minute of midnight on the day they become open to request, week days are more frequently available, though I've also seen weekend days go unused (not common.)

But yeah, the number of guys getting FMLA has continued to increase. And we still have zombie bleary eyed crews because the FRA continues to look the other way, or occasionally halfway implement halfway thought out schemes that don't do much to improve crew rest or off time. So if you work 6 starts you get 2 days off, except it is 48 hours off and thus you are coming back to work when your body is about ready to again go to sleep.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/14 00:21 by darkcloud.

About 5 years ago or so, CSX Intermodal came up with a points system for attendance. It works like this. Mark off sick, 3 points are assessed for each day marked if you don't bring a doctor's note in. So if you are marked off 3 days you are assessed 9 points. If you bring in a doctor's note for those days off sick, you are only assessed 3 points. The points drop off in a rolling 30 day cycle. So if you mark off in the middle of the month, the points won't drop off until the end of the following month. You can go up to 20 points. At that point you get counseling and the points drop back to 10. If it happens more than three times CSX goes for termination.

The union that represents clerks on CSX, the TCU, said there is nothing they can do to fight it because it's a CSX company policy. But from what I've been reading that does not seem to be the case. I think to be a company policy doesn't it have to affect EVERYONE in the company?! Intermodal was rolled into transportation almost 4 years ago. So it seems that CSX has boxed off a small portion of their employee's for this policy. I'm not sure, but this really kind of sounds like discrimination doesn't it??!!

NKPSOUTHERN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About 5 years ago or so, CSX Intermodal came up
> with a points system for attendance. It works like
> this. Mark off sick, 3 points are assessed for
> each day marked if you don't bring a doctor's note
> in. So if you are marked off 3 days you are
> assessed 9 points. If you bring in a doctor's
> note for those days off sick, you are only
> assessed 3 points. The points drop off in a
> rolling 30 day cycle. So if you mark off in the
> middle of the month, the points won't drop off
> until the end of the following month. You can go
> up to 20 points. At that point you get counseling
> and the points drop back to 10. If it happens
> more than three times CSX goes for termination.
>
> The union that represents clerks on CSX, the TCU,
> said there is nothing they can do to fight it
> because it's a CSX company policy. But from what
> I've been reading that does not seem to be the
> case. I think to be a company policy doesn't it
> have to affect EVERYONE in the company?!
> Intermodal was rolled into transportation almost 4
> years ago. So it seems that CSX has boxed off a
> small portion of their employee's for this policy.
> I'm not sure, but this really kind of sounds like
> discrimination doesn't it??!!


It's pretty gutsy for the union to say they CAN'T do anything about it. Just about anything can be bargained, short of legal requirements, like no warning drug tests or federal licenses, etc.

The company has an incentive to keep the extra boards thin, to reduce guarantees and benefit costs. It's usually a lot cheaper to pay overtime when you have to, than to pay full benefits for guys who are effectively working part time. [Opinion - but allowing true part time employees on the extra board could be its own can of worms. A guy is available to work Th-F-Sa-Su only, while somebody else covers that call Mo-Tu-We. They earn seniority to work up to full time, etc.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/14 17:03 by Lackawanna484.

It is true that almost anything can be collectively bargained. But, once you do so, you take out all of the grey area and make the terms iron clad. That can often hurt, instead of help. For example, we recently had an employee in our area who kept marking off, and back up, in such a manner where he basically had an entire month off. He had an ongoing family situation to attend to, which didn't qualify for FMLA. At most any other job, calling out sick for an entire month would get you fired. Had there been a rigid attendance policy in place, he likely would have faced a severe punishment. By NOT having specific contractual terms, he was able to walk away with handling that wasn't overly punitive, and is now back to work with no major marks on his record.

Do the attendance policies make it harder on extra employees who don't have scheduled days off? Sure ... but that is the drawback of having low seniority. With any of the attendance policies, you really have to go out of your way to end up dismissed.

Posted from Android

Another case of blame the men. Perhaps if the railroads hadn't cut capacity to the bone there would be more sidings to park trains instead of tying them down on the main.

AmHog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another case of blame the men. Perhaps if the
> railroads hadn't cut capacity to the bone there
> would be more sidings to park trains instead of
> tying them down on the main.


I dunno. Seems that there's blame and opportunity on everyone. Mileage hogs and bean counters, alike.

I've mentioned my local police agency from time to time. The old timers were OT hogs and grabbed every good OT/special job on seniority. Freezing out guys even with 10-15 years seniority.

The membership threw out the leadership and put in a new plan. Everybody is entitled to 20 hours, before they can work another block of 20 hours in a two month period. You can waive your 20 if you want to stay home, and the next senior guy is offered the time. Next round of 20 begins when the most junior guy has taken or passed on work. In practice, everybody has a few rounds in every 60 day cycle.

Not a lot different than the mileage caps some lines used to have. Max out on miles and you go home for a while. But that forces the carriers to staff appropriately for the business.

bioyans Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is true that almost anything can be
> collectively bargained. But, once you do so, you
> take out all of the grey area and make the terms
> iron clad. That can often hurt, instead of help.
> For example, we recently had an employee in our
> area who kept marking off, and back up, in such a
> manner where he basically had an entire month off.
> He had an ongoing family situation to attend to,
> which didn't qualify for FMLA. At most any other
> job, calling out sick for an entire month would
> get you fired. Had there been a rigid attendance
> policy in place, he likely would have faced a
> severe punishment. By NOT having specific
> contractual terms, he was able to walk away with
> handling that wasn't overly punitive, and is now
> back to work with no major marks on his record.
>
> Do the attendance policies make it harder on extra
> employees who don't have scheduled days off? Sure
> ... but that is the drawback of having low
> seniority. With any of the attendance policies,
> you really have to go out of your way to end up
> dismissed.
>
> Posted from Android

Well, sadly, the policy that was put into place for Intermodal was NEVER negotiated with the TCU. It was put into place by CSX with the position that they, CSX, could do it with no questions asked.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's pretty gutsy for the union to say they CAN'T
> do anything about it. Just about anything can be
> bargained, short of legal requirements, like no
> warning drug tests or federal licenses, etc.


Anything's possible when driving from the back seat.

darkcloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > It's pretty gutsy for the union to say they
> CAN'T
> > do anything about it. Just about anything can
> be
> > bargained, short of legal requirements, like no
> > warning drug tests or federal licenses, etc.
>
>
> Anything's possible when driving from the back
> seat.

are you saying the union will try to negotiate away the federal requirements? Or that they aren't able to negotiate better days off policies? It sounds like the BNSF and UP both have more equitable programs than CSX, and I'm guessing they're negotiated. Unless their management is just nicer...

ETA: In an earlier post, I believe you mentioned that the days off policy in the southern region is more favorable than it sounds to be on other areas of CSX. Why can't the better policy be negotiated elsewhere?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/14 06:50 by Lackawanna484.