Eastern Railroad Discussion > Better Regulation Of Crew Transport

Found this interesting. Crews seem to want it, carriers seem to think it not necessary. What else is new hey. As often as "most dangerous part of my job is crew transport" is spoken here, or wording similar to that, one would tend to agree with crews. A few idealists here think all crews need to do is refuse to accept the ride but actions have consequences and those consequences could be great even though you are in the right. Anyway, I hope for the crews sake something can be done to regulate these crew transport companies to make them more safe.

http://www.standard.net/Government/2015/02/23/Bill-to-regulate-vans-and-shuttles-for-railroad-crews-draws-support-and-fire.html

I gotta agree with this one. Outsourcing this function (which as another poster has noted, is now a part of everyday railroading) is just an invitation to the lowest-bidder transportation provider. You will get what you pay for.

The number of horror stories I've heard from crews on this subject is truly impressive. Inattentive drivers, drivers unfamiliar with snow-driving, drivers nodding off en route. It would scare the crap out of me if I were riding. And around here, it always seems to be a van--basically the worst possible vehicle for winter time driving. Well, maybe a motorcycle would be worse.

To all the actual railroaders on the board--what percentage of your road assignments either start or end in a dog-catch van? 10 percent? 20?

I saw one drive on the wrong side of the road for about 2 miles in New Haven, Indiana. It was on a Sunday evening. Cars (and semis) coming at him (or her) were pulling over to get out of the way. I got the license number and reported it to the local police dispatcher but she seemed apathetic. I agree, railroaders deserve to be transported as safely as possible to and from work. It is my understanding that at least one of the contractors for NS was started and owned by an executive's wife? Can anyone confirm that?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/15 10:07 by wabash2800.

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> To all the actual railroaders on the board--what
> percentage of your road assignments either start
> or end in a dog-catch van? 10 percent? 20?

Closer to 75% for my rough guess (Eastern Washington) for dead heads, dog catches, ride to motel, and short transport to/from train in yard. Even short transports can be dangerous for the same reasons cited in first postings. Our current transport company is now dictating to us where they will/won't go, how fast, etc. Who's in charge? The RR won't sign anything formally cuz they don't want anything in writing that they could be held liable. Fortunately for us crews, we vocalize who we'll ride with so the transport co is forced to be more selective in who they hire.

How many rail personnel reading this post have actually had to drive crew van due to driver fatigue?

rantoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The equipment (vans/carry-alls, etc.) ought to be
> RR owned and/or leased and drivers should be, my
> opinion, staffed by railroad employees and covered
> under collective bargaining agreements. Why?
> Because this time of the workday is part of a
> crew's trip and services provided by labor.
> Simple.

It will never happen. It is cheaper to contract it out, and doing so gets the railroad off the hook for the bulk of the liability, when something does go wrong.

The railroad can sit back and point at the contract transportation carrier, and claim they violated the contract with the RR by not providing safe transportation. It's the same reason they contract out lodging for road crews. If the carrier owns it, then all the liability falls on them.

ubee1964 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many rail personnel reading this post have
> actually had to drive crew van due to driver
> fatigue?


It's not fun driving over 200 miles after being on duty 14 hours! Some drivers are lazy, some are dog tired and others are good. The good ones are few and far between.

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To all the actual railroaders on the board--what
> percentage of your road assignments either start
> or end in a dog-catch van? 10 percent? 20?

It's pretty low. Clerks still schlep crews around the yards as far as getting them to their power, helping put trains together, etc. So you'll only end up in a PTI van if you die out on line-of-road somewhere (which is pretty rare) or if you deadhead-and-turn/deadhead home. 10% is my guess. The vast majority of those trips being deadhead-and-turns.

Totallamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> march_hare Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To all the actual railroaders on the
> board--what
> > percentage of your road assignments either
> start
> > or end in a dog-catch van? 10 percent? 20?
>
> It's pretty low. Clerks still schlep crews around
> the yards as far as getting them to their power,
> helping put trains together, etc. So you'll only
> end up in a PTI van if you die out on line-of-road
> somewhere (which is pretty rare) or if you
> deadhead-and-turn/deadhead home. 10% is my guess.
> The vast majority of those trips being
> deadhead-and-turns.

What railroad and where do you work? Clerks are gone and PTI is in the yard and road. Hours of service was more than 10% when I was out there...maybe it has changed but I doubt it. PTI transported to and from the hotels, and to the trains that have dogged on the road. YMMMV I guess. Just surprised but am sure it could be that low in some places.

Obviously, they don't pay enough (very low wages and mileage) to get anyone good. Even many retired folks don't want to work that hard for those low wages.

espeefan Wrote:
The good ones are
> few and far between.

I sincerely believe railroads should insist that the van drivers are paid a better wage than they get.

Deadheading is extremely common in some pools where the trains aren't balanced. Auto racks may take a triangular route to get good utilization. Oil trains may take the Water Level Route to the East Coast, and return via Sandpatch when empty. Grain trains come home weeks after they depart, and are often diverted. Hence, frequent deadheading is required to keep enough crews on the proper end of the road.

In such locations, one might deadhead 4-5 times per month. And those trips aren't all going to be at 8 a.m. when the driver is keenly alert. As for vehicles, they are often better now than in years past, but sometimes all you get is a worn out Yellow Cab. Deadheading truly has become the most dangerous part of the job.

Full Disclosure: I spend most of my time working in an office. When I "go home", I usually spend 30 to 40 minutes on a SEPTA train for which I zone out. During this time, there is a BLE (and UTU member - sometimes) making sure that I get home safe. I am not a member of the BLE or UTU, NOR to I want to turn this into an anti union rant.

That being said, what are the BLE and UTU unions saying about this issue? I gotta think that if I was a T&E guy, and just spent 12 hours "doing railroad stuff"...and paying union dues.... that I'd like the guy who is going to transport me to a safe place (hotel - or my home) is living by the same regulations as me (T&E personnel).....just sayin'

Steve

In a PTI daily at least once per duty shift. PTI handles us in Toledo and for the most part the "local" cabs are driven by people you can relax with. Some of the OTR drivers are another story.

Unfortunately nearly half of the time between Sparks and Elko Nevada, 318 miles.
One of the four of us woke up at Lovelock which is halfway, and where we usually make a pit stop. The van was stopped halfway down the offramp, still in drive, the driver was asleep with her foot on the brake.

At least deadheading to we are rested and will get eight hours off when we get there. Being dog catched after 12 hours on duty, waiting two more hours for the ride, means you have been up for 16 to 18 hours, and
are in no shape to drive another four hours!

We had another woman who got in a suburban, pulled the seat all the way up, turned on the high beams, and pulled into the fast lane going about fifty. All the oncoming people were blinking, the people she was holding up were blinking and honking behind us, and when we asked her to get in the right lane and turn the high beams down, she said "this is how I drive." Needless to say, we all told her she didn't drive that way with us, and made her take us back!

The Renzenberger supervisor drove a road van in Roseville, and we listened to him take a call from a driver who had to turn himself into jail for two weeks, on a Sunday night. He wanted to leave his van at the yard office and have another driver take him over to the jail. He also wanted them to hold his job for him when he got out...

They were paying seventeen cents per mile, and forty five minutes before waiting time starts, so you get what you pay for!
G

The railroads will do nothing about it. If it was up to them they would have the van driver take over the train and let the crew
drive the van home.

RS11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totallamer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > march_hare Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > To all the actual railroaders on the
> > board--what
> > > percentage of your road assignments either
> > start
> > > or end in a dog-catch van? 10 percent? 20?
> >
> > It's pretty low. Clerks still schlep crews
> around
> > the yards as far as getting them to their
> power,
> > helping put trains together, etc. So you'll
> only
> > end up in a PTI van if you die out on
> line-of-road
> > somewhere (which is pretty rare) or if you
> > deadhead-and-turn/deadhead home. 10% is my
> guess.
> > The vast majority of those trips being
> > deadhead-and-turns.
>
> What railroad and where do you work? Clerks are
> gone and PTI is in the yard and road. Hours of
> service was more than 10% when I was out
> there...maybe it has changed but I doubt it. PTI
> transported to and from the hotels, and to the
> trains that have dogged on the road. YMMMV I
> guess. Just surprised but am sure it could be
> that low in some places.

I work for CSX on the North End Subdivision. Relatively rare for even the hardest working manifest (the Q438) to die on line-of-road. If someone does die out there it's almost sure to be a manifest and there's 5 of those a day in each direction. But by no means do we have trains dying out there every day unless the poo seriously hits the fan. I mean it happens but it's not a constant thing. For reference, in my last year on the Freight Pool I want to say I've tied up 5 times on line-of-road. Deadhead-and-turns are by far the most common use of PTI around here. Both Acca and Rocky Mount have 2 Clerks on duty each shift... mostly to drive the carryalls around (crews to/from the hotel, crews to their power, shuttling the Conductor around while they build the train or make their pickup/setoff, etc) and check trains.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/15 07:46 by Totallamer.

Taxi drivers are paid low because the railroad picks the cab company that submits the lowest bid! Drivers should by covered under the hours of service. As for liability, since the railroad contracts with the transportation provider, the railroad is not absolved if an accident occurs.

Any van driver/company transporting people for hire should be under the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) and should adhere to the same Hours of Service regulations as Truck and Bus drivers do. I think why there's a loophole is because big business wants it that way. Also agree with what the poster said above about you get what you pay for. Dan

Exactly.

ExSPCondr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> They were paying seventeen cents per mile, and
> forty five minutes before waiting time starts, so
> you get what you pay for!
> G

railroaders by federal law have to perform job briefings ... under the federal guidelines of the job briefings if anyone who is not satisfied that with the safety of the job that they are assigned to do, has the right to refuse WITHOUT repercussion from the raillroad ... why isn't the same protection afforded to contract transport companies since technically they are still working under the original job briefing ...

Posted from Android