Eastern Railroad Discussion > Baltimore Md Question

Was down along Holabird Ave in Baltimore Md yesterday and abit this morning. This is right by the Canton RR Offices. Yesterday while looking for where I was going to this morning I had to get on I895 and head south to Exit 8A Shell Road. After exiting the I, I came face to face more or less with a set of CSX Units, the 6421 and 2328. The yard appeared to be a Coal Storage Yard with a few others thrown in. Off to the east was an Auto Unloading/Loading facility that was switched from the track the 2 units were on. This is also for the most part directly under the I895 overpass located here.  What Yard was I looking at? And over at the Canton, I had to sit and wait for an inbound CSX single stacker led by CSX 5467/5299. Not real long as trains go, but it got me to thinking about what yar it maybe headed for. Isn't this area also the location of the ex WM Penn Mary Yard?  Lots of industrial trackage in the area. While witing to load at the MTC Facility here, a CSX switch job trudled by with Ex NS now FURX GP38-2 5506 and CSX 2504.  Can ya'll help me with this area and perhaps abetter understanding of all the associated trackage down this way?  Ponca Street was where I was at.  TIA.  Ben

Ok let me try to get it all right - Curtis Bay yard is under the steel bridge (895), it leads to the coal and ore pier.  Seawall yard is next to it, lots of chemical and fuel traffic around that part too in addition to the coal and automobile traffic.  That line basically runs parallel to Patapsco Ave out to Mt Winans where it joins the main to go either west to Cumberland, south to Richmond or north to Phila. 

On the east side of the harbor, Ponca St has Penn Mary yard which is former B&O, but much of that has dwindled since the closing of the Broening Hwy GM plant that it used to serve, the Canton RR yard is adjacent so it looks as one yard.  The stacker was likely heading to Seagirt marine terminal which is down near the FSK bridge.  If you went by Penn Mary on your left, Consol coal yard is on your right Newkirk St splits them which both CSX and NS serve for coal exports.  Both CSX and NS get there via their respective Bay View yards.

OK, Cole 42 thanks. That helps me a lot.  I was down Newkirk St, so I now know which yards are which.  But that begets another question for ya. With the stacker going to SeaGrit, would they be loaded containers or empties?  Does Baltimore actually "ship" outbound to overseas destinations from here? I was always under the impression that SeaGrit and Baltimore in general, was more for inbound traffic than outbound traffic, other than of course the coal that goes out from this port.  And seeing how this was a "single" stacker, would that be because of clearance issues in the area perhaps?  Thanks again for the enlightenment. I for one, do appreciate it.  Ben

Hmmm, I don't know the load/empty information, hopefully someone else on here will.  And correct on the clearance, Baltimore area can't handle double stacks.  I think the Old Main Line can handle double stacks, back in the 90's CSX centered the single main in the tunnels and I believe that made it possible, but once they would get to Baltimore they're stuck. There was talk of an intermodal facility around Dorsey on the Capital sub ( a few miles south of the city), but to the best of my knowledge the NIMBY's shot that down. 

CSX and the state also tried to set up an intermodal facility at the old Mt. Clare yard but that attempt was heavily NIMBY-IZED also and did not materialize. The objective with both the Dorsey and Mt. Clare sites was to have the capability to build double stacks, which they cannot do at the current, dockside yards. This is due to the aforementioned clearance issues (Howard St. tunnel). 
     The state wanted the real estate around the docks, CSX really wanted to build stackers to send west (even though it would mean draying the boxes across the harbor) so in this case both were working hard to make the intermodal yard happen. But it wasn't to be, at least not yet.

Double stacks can go through the Howard Street tunnell , providing they are the international container which i believe is about a foot shorter than the domestic containers

fl9turbo Wrote:
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> Double stacks can go through the Howard Street
> tunnel, providing they are the international
> container which i believe is about a foot shorter
> than the domestic containers

This may be true, but what would be more lucrative for CSX would be the ability to haul bigger domestic boxes along the East Coast. And I'm pretty sure there are many high-cube containers now even at the international 40' length.

Howard st tunnel can handle double stacks ONLY if they are the short 8'6 high cons. Two of them stacked in a well are are just under the height of an enclosed TTGX/ETTX or any othe autorack that has an ATR of 19'0 or 19'1. These just BARELY clear thru Howard Street tunnel. But most marine containers now are 'high cube' which means 9'6 inches tall, just like domestic cons. They cannot pass. With containers being loaded into stack cars at many distant origins it is virtually impossible to control that only two shorter 8'6 cons be stacked in a car, so CSX clearance restrictions are enforced. I'm sure there is a 'high car detector' in west Baltimore to enforce this.  But the 8'6s did go thru Howard Street many times years ago, and one of them even made it to Wilsmere, DE and a freind has photo proof, and I saw it too. They cannot go past Chester, PA or even Autoracks.

As for the single level cons you saw to Seagirt, were they marine or domestic? Marine's are 40-45 foot with shipline markings and domestics are 53ft with familiar USA company names like JB Hunt and Schneider, etc. But Seagirt probably does do both import and export. You would have to be a CSX insider to have statistics as to the ratio of each.

Cole42 Wrote:
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> Ok let me try to get it all right - Curtis Bay
> yard is under the steel bridge (895), it leads to
> the coal and ore pier.  Seawall yard is next to
> it, lots of chemical and fuel traffic around that
> part too in addition to the coal and automobile
> traffic.  That line basically runs parallel to
> Patapsco Ave out to Mt Winans where it joins the
> main to go either west to Cumberland, south to
> Richmond or north to Phila. 
>
> On the east side of the harbor, Ponca St has Penn
> Mary yard which is former B&O, but much of that
> has dwindled since the closing of the Broening Hwy
> GM plant that it used to serve, the Canton RR yard
> is adjacent so it looks as one yard.  The stacker
> was likely heading to Seagirt marine terminal
> which is down near the FSK bridge.  If you went
> by Penn Mary on your left, Consol coal yard is on
> your right Newkirk St splits them which both CSX
> and NS serve for coal exports.  Both CSX and NS
> get there via their respective Bay View yards.

Since this person gave a good answer I'll add to this.  FSK bridge is the Francis Scott Key Bridge which is part of the Baltimore Beltway I-695, and goes across the Patapsco River.  The Curtis Bay Yard begins in the Brooklyn area through Fairfield and then goes into the area called Curtis Bay, named for the small tributary of the Patapsco River called Curtis Creek.  The former B&O line crosses over this body of water on a draw bridge near the U.S. Coast Guard ship repair yard and it continues down through the area under the main road called Fort Smallwood Road to serve many other industries.  This area has a lot of possibilities for more development and could be developed to serve a double stacked container yard for CSX as the railroad goes to other industries located on the Patapsco River just below the Key Bridge.  There are only a couple of places where the railroad would have to make some clearance corrections including going under that section of Fort Smallwood Road; however there should not be any local home owners (NIMBY's) to deal with if CSX would consider going to this location.  I've heard that this is now being considered.

John in White Marsh, Maryland