Eastern Railroad Discussion > EMD Evolution Locos

I saw an article in rail pace that EMD will also be shipping several Tier 2 locomotives...SD89s with a V12. Should be a good battle for the winner.

SD89MAC #GM92 has already been around for a couple of years testing the 12V-265H, but word was that EMD would also produce a modified, Tier-II compliant version of the 16V-710G3 into what are supposed to be SD70ACe. A prototype SD70ACe should be under construction at London. It\'s likely that this modified SD70 will sell better than an hypothetical production-model SD89M or SD89MAC, with all the bad press and trouble associated with the 265H. And RR already are familiar with the 710, while only UP and CP have 265H units on the property.

JF

Wishful thinker, where have you been?

The GE 7HDL as used in the AC6000CWs also has a "bad" reputation but GE is using a 12 cylinder version of it in the new GEVO AC4400CW-II locomotives.

I have heard that there is NO WAY that the 710 or any 2 cycle diesel can be made tier 2 compliant. I think its curtains for EMD since the H engine is such a failure. :-(

duracell wrote:

> SD89MAC #GM92 has already been around for a couple of years
> testing the 12V-265H, but word was that EMD would also produce
> a modified, Tier-II compliant version of the 16V-710G3 into
> what are supposed to be SD70ACe. A prototype SD70ACe should be
> under construction at London. It\'s likely that this modified
> SD70 will sell better than an hypothetical production-model
> SD89M or SD89MAC, with all the bad press and trouble associated
> with the 265H. And RR already are familiar with the 710, while
> only UP and CP have 265H units on the property.
>
> JF
>
> [%sig%]

n01jd1

it is apparent that you have not read in March 2003 issue of Trains Magazine pg. 20. as EMD has found away to make the 710G3 tier II compliant.
EMD has stated the new varinat of the 710 will reduce emissions by more then 50%. Get a copy of that issue on read on.

n01jd1 wrote:

> I have heard that there is NO WAY that the 710 or any 2 cycle
> diesel can be made tier 2 compliant. I think its curtains for
> EMD since the H engine is such a failure. :-(

Well the NO WAY possible Tier 2 compliant 710 engine is NO WAY NOT possible, because they already building demonstrators with the new version of the engine. CSX already has an order in the books for SD70MAC\'s with the new engine. And the 265H is not dead yet, last I heard they were still working on getting all of the bugs out, and I would say that a 12 cylinder 265H will be in a production locomotive someday, maybe not a SD89, but in some other locomotive down the road. Finally it is definitely not the end for EMD, considering they are building more locomotives this year then GE is, and GE\'s 7HDL engine is in much worse shape then EMD\'s 265H.

Kyle

CR4114 wrote:

> but in some other locomotive down the road. Finally it is
> definitely not the end for EMD, considering they are building
> more locomotives this year then GE is, and GE\'s 7HDL engine is
> in much worse shape then EMD\'s 265H.
>
> Kyle

I don\'t know if EMD is still #1 after the announcement that BNSF will buy 115 GE (AC4400CW et Dash-9, with a couple of them to be Evolution series). CN also has 30 Dash-9 on order (probably regular ones). But it\'s a not-so-bad year for EMD anyway given the economical context. Those 75 SD70MAC for CSX are a welcome relief, and hopefully we\'ll see more SD70M for UP and NS and perhaps other custommers.

JF

EMD does indeed have some tricks up their sleeve that should put a hurt on GE. First is the tier II compliant 710 series prime mover which will find its way into the new SD70ACe. EMD is currentlt building 4 test locomotives called "SD89 Alpha" which will be numbered SD1-SD4. Supposedly 2 units will carry the new tier II 710 prime mover initially to allow it to test on the road while the other two units are to be full blown SD89MAC\'s powered by the new 12-265H prime mover rated at 4500hp. The problems with the 265H prime mover have been long solved, the big problem has been the SD90MAC-H electrical system. The new SD89MAC is a totally different locomotive than the GM92 which was merely an SD90MAC-H carbody with a 12-265H prime mover just to get the engine into the field.
On the GE Side, these new GEVO units are powered by nothing more than a 12 cylinder 7HDL prime mover. Take a look at the CSX AC6000CW fleet with its 16 cylinder 7HDL prime movers. This prime mover has been a big failure for GE and even after 3 redesigns it still doesn\'t cut the mustard. If you can\'t crank reliably crank 4400-4700hp with the 16 cylinder version you sure as hell won\'t be able to crank 4400hp with the 12 cylinder version. GE screwed themselves when they partnered with Deuzt to develope the HDL prime mover.

Bryan Jones

redneckrailfan wrote:

> reliably crank 4400-4700hp with the 16 cylinder version you
> sure as hell won\'t be able to crank 4400hp with the 12 cylinder
> version. GE screwed themselves when they partnered with Deuzt
> to develope the HDL prime mover.



Its GEVO engine is not a 12 cylinder version of the HDL. Things such as completely different block design and a single turbo set it apart from a chopped HDL. Unlike EMD, GE designed a new engine.

The problems with the 265H prime mover have been long solved, the big problem has been the SD90MAC-H electrical system.


Siemens still to supply the electrical gear?

> Its GEVO engine is not a 12 cylinder version of the HDL.
> Things such as completely different block design and a single
> turbo set it apart from a chopped HDL. Unlike EMD, GE designed
> a new engine.

The only thing all new is the name. Take a look at the pictures. Same bearing access covers and everything. The turbo is of a different design but not all new.

As far as that goes, GE has yet to design ANY diesel engine. The first was a Cooper Bessemer and the second is a Deutz. There is no third, just a new name.