Eastern Railroad Discussion > NS WV Secondary to be physically severed

From a reliable source, at 6:00am today the West Virginia Secondary is Out of Service from MP RR66.0 to MP RR116.5. The rail at MP RR66 and 116.5 will be removed in it's entirety. This is roughly from the Burr Oak mine area between Athens and New Lexington down to Hobson, on the Ohio River.  

Since the segment was idled, trains have run from Columbus to Thurston (a local) and there have been a couple of coal trains between Burr Oak and Columbus.  The Ohio Central coal trains will continue to run from Burr Oak to New Lexington then go off of the Secondary toward Conesville.  On the WV side, trains have run a couple of times up to Point Pleasant to the CSX interchange.  

Through traffic has been rerouted down the Virginian, adding miles to transit and no doubt increasing rates and transit times, which will eventually scare away some of the business.  So the current VPs get their raises for cutting costs and the business will be lost on someone else's watch.  Ah...the best of American business decision making.

A sad day and a real nail in the coffin.  Like CSX, NS can't get out of southern Ohio fast enough.

What does the RR stand for in RR66?

Posted from Android

I don't know.  That is how it was reported to me. 
 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does the RR stand for in RR66?
>
> Posted from Android

That's the district milepost prefix. That's what seperates every milepost from one another on the system.

another one of my favorite lines that i'll never get to see operate as a through route ... dammit ...

The extra miles down the VGN will not affect rates necessarily  still have to honer the rates as if
the railroad was still their 
its not  an abandonment just shut down.

-------------------------------------------------------
> From a reliable source, at 6:00am today the West
> Virginia Secondary is Out of Service from MP
> RR66.0 to MP RR116.5. The rail at MP RR66 and
> 116.5 will be removed in it's entirety. This is
> roughly from the Burr Oak mine area between Athens
> and New Lexington down to Hobson, on the Ohio
> River.  
>
> Since the segment was idled, trains have run from
> Columbus to Thurston (a local) and there have been
> a couple of coal trains between Burr Oak and
> Columbus.  The Ohio Central coal trains will
> continue to run from Burr Oak to New Lexington
> then go off of the Secondary toward Conesville.
>  On the WV side, trains have run a couple of
> times up to Point Pleasant to the CSX interchange.
>  
>
> Through traffic has been rerouted down the
> Virginian, adding miles to transit and no doubt
> increasing rates and transit times, which will
> eventually scare away some of the business.  So
> the current VPs get their raises for cutting costs
> and the business will be lost on someone else's
> watch.  Ah...the best of American business
> decision making.
>
> A sad day and a real nail in the coffin.  Like
> CSX, NS can't get out of southern Ohio fast
> enough.

Agree that removing a section of rail does not constitute abandonment; it merely relieves the railroad of needing to inspect the track and maintain crossing protection. But given the dearth of on-line traffic potential and NS's ability to reroute traffic out of the Charleston area, I would not consider this line's future to be bright. For that matter, I'm somewhat surprised NS still interchanges with CSX at Point Pleasant.
 

According to a shipper on the line, rates did indeed go up.  HIs rates went up 40% due to "increased mileage."

I am not sure of his destination, but it is a big hit to his budget.


ClassJ604 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The extra miles down the VGN will not affect rates
> necessarily  still have to honer the rates as if
> the railroad was still their 
> its not  an abandonment just shut down.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
 

NS raised the rates on the company that ships scrap from the Toyota transmission plant north of Charleston due to the impending extended routing. 


ClassJ604 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The extra miles down the VGN will not affect rates
> necessarily  still have to honer the rates as if
> the railroad was still their 
> its not  an abandonment just shut down.
>

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree that removing a section of rail does not
> constitute abandonment; it merely relieves the
> railroad of needing to inspect the track and
> maintain crossing protection. But given the dearth
> of on-line traffic potential and NS's ability to
> reroute traffic out of the Charleston area, I
> would not consider this line's future to be
> bright. For that matter, I'm somewhat surprised NS
> still interchanges with CSX at Point Pleasant.
>  

When they physically sever the track like that, it usually means the end.......

I think demand (i.e. coal) would REALLY have to come back for life to return to the line.  Something that I don't see happening anytime soon.......if ever.

What is sad to me is the loss of the trains through those mountains. There is just something about heavy trains rumbling in the hills.......

I grew up in Charleston, and it's sad to see the line cease to be a through route.  Although, I've always been a VGN fan, so it's good to see the Deepwater-Mullens section really coming to life.   I remember when that segment of the VGN was mostly-rusty jointed rail in the 1990s with only an occasional movement (including the RBBB train in the spring), and I was in college at WV Tech when they installed the welded rail and began routing coal trains south on it.  Does anyone know if this new traffic down the VGN will bode well for the Mullens-Kellysville section (Clark's Gap)?  I'd heard it was up for mothballing due to the coal slowdown, but it's a much shorter route for eastbound traffic from the Kanawha Valley, despite the grade.

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/16 17:36 by stormhighway.

Southern Ohio, Southern Indiana, West Virginia, Virginia. All places that even ten years ago had a lot more trains and active tracks then they do today. I had finally gotten over the Ohio Division and the Peavine being shut down, well, not really...

Jim

glendale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What does the RR stand for in RR66?
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
> That's the district milepost prefix. That's what
> seperates every milepost from one another on the
> system.

Thank you. Nothing special like Roaring River etc for the RR prefix?

Sad to hear -- both as this line has sentimental value as some family land parallels it, and as it's one of the few assets left for industry in SE Ohio. Also seems a bit surprising that NS would start removing track this soon after taking it out of service. Would this suggest that NS offered it to short-line companies but there was no interest (other than the Ohio Central from Glouster north); or did NS not even want to offer it? And, even if track can be removed witout abandoning the line (something I didn't know was possible), are there any approvals needed for this? The vast majorioty of the time, I'm against state intrusion on private business. But given that SE Ohio (and, I'd presume, this part of WV) has so few other major arteries, I could see the Ohio Rail Development Commission or JobsOhio trying to at least urge the line to stay intact for a while, in hopes that it could spark some kind of selling point for industries... But I guess if business hasn't gone in there yet, perhaps there's little hope of anything now that coal is being killed off...

On a purely fanciful note, could anyone other than me see the potential for a beautiful scenic line if this track were to be preserved? The problem would be not wanting to compete with the Hocking Valley in Nelsonville, but with the historic college town of Athens, the beautiful hills and curves, the Ohio River bridge and (if you wanted to venture some long runs) the Moxahala Tunnel and T&OC depot in Columbus as a potential point of origin, it would be a trip I'd love to ride. Several decades ago, my grandfather and some friends, all of whom helped found the Ohio Railway Museum in Columbus in the '40s, apparently tried to buy part of the CA&C from the Pennsy when they shut it down for use as a scenic line. Alas, I'm guessing any effort to do the same here would be met with the same closed door...

- Robbie

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> glendale Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What does the RR stand for in RR66?
> > >
> > > Posted from Android
> >
> > That's the district milepost prefix. That's
> what
> > seperates every milepost from one another on
> the
> > system.
>
> Thank you. Nothing special like Roaring River etc
> for the RR prefix?

It could, but I'm not certain. I never heard of any prefixs meaning anything, but that doesn't mean they do not.

tq-07fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Southern Ohio, Southern Indiana, West Virginia,
> Virginia. All places that even ten years ago had a
> lot more trains and active tracks then they do
> today. I had finally gotten over the Ohio Division
> and the Peavine being shut down, well, not
> really...
>
> Jim

Add Georgia to that list, with the ex ACL "Bow Line" and the old Georgia Railroad reduced to 25 mph lines, bereft of all but local traffic.  The Bow Line was always kinda on the bubble, being unsignalled and jointed rail, but the Georgia Road fell kinda fast--some always thought it had some sort of primacy as an Atlanta-Savannah/Charleston route, but that notion is gone.

Chessie1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to a shipper on the line, rates did
> indeed go up.  HIs rates went up 40% due to
> "increased mileage."
>
> I am not sure of his destination, but it is a big
> hit to his budget.
>
>
> ClassJ604 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The extra miles down the VGN will not affect
> rates
> > necessarily  still have to honer the rates as
> if
> > the railroad was still their 
> > its not  an abandonment just shut down.
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>  

Who!s the shipper ?
 

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree that removing a section of rail does not
> constitute abandonment; it merely relieves the
> railroad of needing to inspect the track and
> maintain crossing protection. But given the dearth
> of on-line traffic potential and NS's ability to
> reroute traffic out of the Charleston area, I
> would not consider this line's future to be
> bright. For that matter, I'm somewhat surprised NS
> still interchanges with CSX at Point Pleasant.
>  

Your right . I never understood how this piece of railroad ever made tt this far. I thought  years ago they
should have made a trade off deal with CSX to get the traffic out of the Charleston.
 

Don't get me wrong, I loved my time in Athens as an undergrad, but I also got the distinct impression that the community/area was quite happy with the university being the biggest employer and other than that would rather have small "sustainable" business than a manufacturing base. (There was also a faction that felt that coal was going to come back too.) In any event the WV Secondary is long on miles, short on business and has nothing that must go that way.


robbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sad to hear -- both as this line has sentimental
> value as some family land parallels it, and as
> it's one of the few assets left for industry in SE
> Ohio. Also seems a bit surprising that NS would
> start removing track this soon after taking it out
> of service. Would this suggest that NS offered it
> to short-line companies but there was no interest
> (other than the Ohio Central from Glouster north);
> or did NS not even want to offer it? And, even if
> track can be removed witout abandoning the line
> (something I didn't know was possible), are there
> any approvals needed for this? The vast majorioty
> of the time, I'm against state intrusion on
> private business. But given that SE Ohio (and, I'd
> presume, this part of WV) has so few other major
> arteries, I could see the Ohio Rail Development
> Commission or JobsOhio trying to at least urge the
> line to stay intact for a while, in hopes that it
> could spark some kind of selling point for
> industries... But I guess if business hasn't gone
> in there yet, perhaps there's little hope of
> anything now that coal is being killed off...
>
> On a purely fanciful note, could anyone other than
> me see the potential for a beautiful scenic line
> if this track were to be preserved? The problem
> would be not wanting to compete with the Hocking
> Valley in Nelsonville, but with the historic
> college town of Athens, the beautiful hills and
> curves, the Ohio River bridge and (if you wanted
> to venture some long runs) the Moxahala Tunnel and
> T&OC depot in Columbus as a potential point of
> origin, it would be a trip I'd love to ride.
> Several decades ago, my grandfather and some
> friends, all of whom helped found the Ohio Railway
> Museum in Columbus in the '40s, apparently tried
> to buy part of the CA&C from the Pennsy when they
> shut it down for use as a scenic line. Alas, I'm
> guessing any effort to do the same here would be
> met with the same closed door...
>
> - Robbie

Posted from iPhone

Traffic thru Clarks Gap is dead and not coming back. Traffic from Deepwater to Ellamore runs west to Gilbert.
RWJ

stormhighway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I grew up in Charleston, and it's sad to see the
> line cease to be a through route.  Although, I've
> always been a VGN fan, so it's good to see the
> Deepwater-Mullens section really coming to
> life.   I remember when that segment of the VGN
> was mostly-rusty jointed rail in the 1990s with
> only an occasional movement (including the RBBB
> train in the spring), and I was in college at WV
> Tech when they installed the welded rail and began
> routing coal trains south on it.  Does anyone
> know if this new traffic down the VGN will bode
> well for the Mullens-Kellysville section (Clark's
> Gap)?  I'd heard it was up for mothballing due to
> the coal slowdown, but it's a much shorter route
> for eastbound traffic from the Kanawha Valley,
> despite the grade.
>
>