Eastern Railroad Discussion > A Question On Norfolk Southern Signals

Trying to find out what is the purpose of the two single aspects, one out of the siding above the three light signal and one on the mainline below the three light signal. Have always seen these display RED. What is their purpose? Do they ever display a color other then RED? If so, what color and what conditions would exist to cause the change? I have heard the dispatcher us the term “Home Signal” on occasion. Are they associated with that term? I want to say the signals shown below is a “Southern Rail Road” thing and may not exist in this arrangement in other territories such as the old N&W?

Can anyone shed some light on this topic?
In advance, Thanks

Phil Maton
Villa Rica, GA

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This is an SOU signal.  The single red light on the left mast means that a train cannot pass if the upper head is red.  I cannot think of the exact term for this.

The single red light on the right mast means that only diverging movements are allowed.

Both of the single lights are always red.

For the signal on the right, I believe the fixed single red is in place on top because you are coming off a siding track on to the main, so the least restrictive signal you could have would always be a diverging clear which would always be a red-green-red or in the case of the cantilever shown above, a red-green indication. 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/17 19:45 by Mikey0191.

Coming off a siding or moving double track to single track.  As you noted, diverging clear here is just a red over green.  You will not get a red over green over red here.  A red over red over green is also diverging clear.
 

Mikey0191 Wrote:
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> For the signal on the right, I believe the fixed
> single red is in place on top because you are
> coming off a siding track on to the main, so the
> least restrictive signal you could have would
> always be a diverging clear which would always be
> a red-green-red or in the case of the cantilever
> shown above, a red-green indication. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/17 19:55 by Rathole.

You're certainly on the right track with your reply, but as Paul Harvey used to say, here's the rest of the story.  Those are indeed Southern Railway signals.  Red over red with no number plate= stop signal.  Red over red with a number plate = restricting.  Here, on the right hand signal the top single light is a just marker light (always red) and indicates movement will be thru a turnout (red over green = diverging clear, and red over yellow = diverging approach.  As far as the left hand signal, it can display red over red = stop, green over red = clear, and yellow over red = approach.  The bottom light only shows red, just as SOUCF25 noted.

Could the same indications be displayed on the left hand signal with just a single G/Y/R signal without a number plate?  Yes, but Southern just preferred the double reds. 




SOUCF25 Wrote:
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> This is an SOU signal.  The single red light on
> the left mast means that a train cannot pass if
> the upper head is red.  I cannot think of the
> exact term for this.
>
> The single red light on the right mast means that
> only diverging movements are allowed.
>
> Both of the single lights are always red.

NSSpike I have heard the dispatcher us the term
> “Home Signal” on occasion. Are they associated
> with that term? 

A home signal is what you see. It is the absolute signal at the entrance to an interlocking. No number plate.

Thanks for the replies to the original question. Based on the replies by TO Members I conclude that the following aspects could exist in the photo below.
Is it possible but not likely that a flashing YELLOW with both RED lighs lit " Diverging Approach Restricted" at 15mph,  exist on the siding track signal?

Phil Maton
Villa Rica, GA

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Yes, as you noted, certainly possible, but not likely, here.  However, with all the new signal installations we're seeing more use of the diverging approach restricted indication than in the past. 


NSSpike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the replies to the original question.
> Based on the replies by TO Members I conclude that
> the following aspects could exist in the photo
> below.
> Is it possible but not likely that a flashing
> YELLOW with both RED lighs lit " Diverging
> Approach Restricted" at 15mph,  exist on the
> siding track signal?

Oh, and in old Southern Railway parlance,  a red over red (aka double red) without a number plate was called a "positive stop."
​

41bridge Wrote:
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> NSSpike I have heard the dispatcher us the term
> > “Home Signal” on occasion. Are they
> associated with that term?

​They are called Home Signals because if you run one they send your ass home!!!
​;-)

​NZ 

Hi folks,

So with the signals in the photos above, how is an advance approach signal handled by them? Or is at all?

For example the next signal after this one is an approach. If an advance approach is a double yellow for Norfolk Southern in Alabama (if I have that right), what would the mainline signal display? would both signals just give a clear aspect preceeding an approach signal?

Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/17 05:28 by appletech.

appletech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi folks,
>
> So with the signals in the photos above, how is an
> advance approach signal handled by them? Or is at
> all?
>
> For example the next signal after this one is an
> approach. If an advance approach is a double
> yellow for Norfolk Southern in Alabama (if I have
> that right), what would the mainline signal
> display? would both signals just give a clear
> aspect preceeding an approach signal?
>
> Thanks.

I just wanted to follow up and see if anyone would be able to give some input on the above.

When a signal has a red-only head at the top or middle position, an Yellow/Yellow Advanced Approach aspect isn't possible.  I'm trying to figure out what aspect would preceed an Approach when the signal can't physically show it.  A Clear (or Diverging Clear) seems the likely answer?

Thank you

Is NS the only one of the majors to still use route signalling?  If so, it would be typical of their hide-bound attitude toward anything "not invented here"  A retired CR rules examiner tells of the time Tony Ingram had planned to convert ex-Conrail to route signalling. During a cab ride with Ingram as they approached the complicated Capitol and Paxton CP's,  my friend explained the confusion and possible delay that might arise under route signalling, Ingram relented.  Score one for Conrail!
I

See the discussion in the other thread, https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,5001262 where it's explained that route signaling is more common than speed signaling. 

Rathole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and in old Southern Railway parlance,  a red
> over red (aka double red) without a number plate
> was called a "positive stop."

And back in the day on the Norfolk and Western it was "Stop and Stay."

An intermediate signal with a single red and number plate was "Stop and Proceed" (at Restricted Speed).  As on many roads if it also had a "G" plate (for Grade) it was "Restricting" or "Restricted Proceed."