Eastern Railroad Discussion > NS roanoke operations

Do any trains coming from the north (eg Hagerstown) go into the roanoke yard and then change the direction of the train and then leave going south toward Charlotte or east to Roanoke. If so what are the numbers.

thanks R

rhotond Wrote:
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> Do any trains coming from the north (eg
> Hagerstown) go into the roanoke yard and then
> change the direction of the train and then leave
> going south toward Charlotte or east to Roanoke.
> If so what are the numbers.
>

To my knowledge there are no trains that routinely do this. Trains operating between Hagerstown and either Norfolk or Charlotte run via Manassas.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> To my knowledge there are no trains that routinely
> do this. Trains operating between Hagerstown and
> either Norfolk or Charlotte run via Manassas.

'Patch is correct. If a train from Hagerstown (and points north) to Greensboro, Linwood or Charlotte would go via Roanoke, they would have to run into the yard and run around their train and then head east to Lynchburg, cross over to the ex-Southern and then proceed south. As it goes now, they go through Manassas and head south on the Piedmont Division. Also depending on train tonnage, the Roanoke routing would probably require a pusher over the hill at Blue Ridge, between Roanoke and Lynchburg.

Russ

NSTopHat Wrote:
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> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > To my knowledge there are no trains that
> routinely
> > do this. Trains operating between Hagerstown
> and
> > either Norfolk or Charlotte run via Manassas.
>
> 'Patch is correct. If a train from Hagerstown (and
> points north) to Greensboro, Linwood or Charlotte
> would go via Roanoke, they would have to run into
> the yard and run around their train and then head
> east to Lynchburg, cross over to the ex-Southern
> and then proceed south. As it goes now, they go
> through Manassas and head south on the Piedmont
> Division. Also depending on train tonnage, the
> Roanoke routing would probably require a pusher
> over the hill at Blue Ridge, between Roanoke and
> Lynchburg.
>
> Russ

What about the ex-VGN line to Altavista? Wouldn't that be a potential routing?

John R -- CP Spring
Carlisle, PA

Unless I'm mistaken, sometimes coal empties coming back from one of the power plants on the Winston Salem District (Hyco? Belews Creek? I can't remember) head up the Shenandoah District to Hagerstown when the train sets need to go back to the MGA coalfields. These usually have a 747 or 777 symbol. I don't know how this move is accomplished in Roanoke, but assume there must be a run around involved. Interestingly, the loaded end of this move always goes from the MGA west through Pittsburgh, Ohio, Kenova and over the Pokey, I assume because they would have to use helpers for loads moving over the Shen Line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/17 09:04 by PittsburghMike.

steamfan Wrote:
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> What about the ex-VGN line to Altavista? Wouldn't
> that be a potential routing?

John;

They could use the Tinker Creek Connection east of town to go from the N&W to the VGN and then head south on the Southern at Alta Vista, but they would still have to make the reverse move in the main yard. They could also take the P'kin Vine south towards Winston Salem and then make another reverse movement back onto the VGN as well, but the Tinker Creek Connection would be easier access to the VGN.

Regards,
Russ

PittsburghMike Wrote:
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> Unless I'm mistaken, sometimes coal empties coming
> back from one of the power plants on the Winston
> Salem District (Hyco? Belews Creek? I can't
> remember) head up the Shenandoah District to
> Hagerstown when the train sets need to go back to
> the MGA coalfields. These usually have a 747 or
> 777 symbol. I don't know how this move is
> accomplished in Roanoke, but assume there must be
> a run around involved.

Yes, this move occurs on an irregular basis for some of the empty hopper trains, and requires a runaround in the yard at Roanoke.

777 is empties from Hyco, while 747 is empties from Belews Creek.

Running Hagerstown-Norfolk/Linwood trains via the Altavista District would have the same routing problem in Roanoke that using the Blue Ridge would have. While it would avoid the Blue Ridge grade, a run-around would still be needed, so the Manassas routing is favored.

One question this discussion raises for me is, on what trains does NS manifest freight move into or out of Norfolk? Is it all handled on local symbols east of Crewe?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/17 09:28 by toledopatch.

toledopatch Wrote:
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> One question this discussion raises for me is, on
> what trains does NS manifest freight move into or
> out of Norfolk? Is it all handled on local symbols
> east of Crewe?

All current Norfolk manifest traffic is run on locals V17 Norfolk - Crewe and V18 Crewe - Norfolk.

Andrew

florida581 Wrote:
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> toledopatch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One question this discussion raises for me is,
> on
> > what trains does NS manifest freight move into
> or
> > out of Norfolk? Is it all handled on local
> symbols
> > east of Crewe?
>
> All current Norfolk manifest traffic is run on
> locals V17 Norfolk - Crewe and V18 Crewe -
> Norfolk.

Which means that it all travels between Crewe and Roanoke on 188/189, correct? I was inspired to figure out if there was some Enola-Norfolk or Linwood-Norfolk train I had never heard of for whatever reason. Apparently not.

toledopatch Wrote:
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>
> Which means that it all travels between Crewe and
> Roanoke on 188/189, correct? I was inspired to
> figure out if there was some Enola-Norfolk or
> Linwood-Norfolk train I had never heard of for
> whatever reason. Apparently not.

The following manifest trains feed the locals based out of Crewe:

158 Linwood, NC - Crewe, VA
159 Crewe, VA - Linwood, NC
188 Bellevue, OH - Crewe, VA
189 Crewe, VA - Portsmouth, OH

Andrew

NSTopHat Wrote:
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> steamfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > What about the ex-VGN line to Altavista?
> Wouldn't
> > that be a potential routing?
>
> John;
>
> They could use the Tinker Creek Connection east of
> town to go from the N&W to the VGN and then head
> south on the Southern at Alta Vista, but they
> would still have to make the reverse move in the
> main yard. They could also take the P'kin Vine
> south towards Winston Salem and then make another
> reverse movement back onto the VGN as well, but
> the Tinker Creek Connection would be easier access
> to the VGN.
>
> Regards,
> Russ

Thanks. Now I remember that the Valley line comes in just west of the wye area...

Posted from Android

John R -- CP Spring
Carlisle, PA

Has traffic picked up at all from Hagerstown to Roanoke via Shenandoah?

CSXT_8437 Wrote:
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> Has traffic picked up at all from Hagerstown to
> Roanoke via Shenandoah?

AFAIK its still 201/202, 15T/16T and whatever locals and extras have to run. Its a really neat line, just not many trains.

Posted from iPhone

Any chance of it being abandoned or sold?

CSXT_8437 Wrote:
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> Any chance of it being abandoned or sold?

There is always a chance, but I really doubt it....

Before the NS merger, and going way back to Penn Central days, there was one about weekly unit train that did the run-around move at Roanoke. These were the Norfolk to Massena, NY alumina or aluminum ore trains for Alcoa via Hagerstown. They were 50 car trains using unique covered hopper cars belonging to Alcoa. This move may have started in PRR days. It still moves today, but after the CSX/NS takeover of Conrail the biz shifted to all CSX routing via the port of Baltimore. Until EHH arrived it was unit train symbol K533 NB and K534 SB. It was a sixty car train of a mixed collection of CSXT and private cars, some of the ugliest covered hoppers in the country. Like other small unit trains on CSX it has been combined with regular manifest trains, which has been tried before, but was unsatisfactory to Alcoa. It will be interesting to see how it survives this time. Or how long the Massena operation lasts.

JLinDE Wrote:
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> Before the NS merger, and going way back to Penn
> Central days, there was one about weekly unit
> train that did the run-around move at Roanoke.
> These were the Norfolk to Massena, NY alumina or
> aluminum ore trains for Alcoa via Hagerstown. They
> were 50 car trains using unique covered hopper
> cars belonging to Alcoa....

I remember those trains, but I am thinking that they ran 60 cars.