Eastern Railroad Discussion > 'Coal ships' awaiting loads

This is in addition to the post by SOUCF25 on Feb 19, and the two replies, and supports them, I think. I like cargo ships almost as much as trains alto I know more about trains since I am a retired railroader, but I worked in a busy vessel port 50 years ago in Saigon. I check a marine website every day or so to see if any VLCC's are in Delaware Bay, big box-ships coming up, or where the weekend Norfolk/Baltimore/ Philly container barge is. Recently I have noticed more than the usual number of ships at the Bay Bridge and Cape Charles anchorages (I may be using wrong names for them). Last night half - watching the Olympics, I decided to list them

First, terminology. The old term for coal ships is 'collier'. But many modern ships carry coal and iron ore and other bulk commodities. The website I use calls them 'bulkers'. But I have a problem with that too. To me a bulker implies the ship has no on board cranes and requires dockside facilities to load and unload. But the website includes 'geared' ships with cranes as bulkers. Usually only smaller bulkers have cranes.

So here is my research from appx 2000-2200 Feb 20, 2018 a Tuesday. Baltimore harbor loading one. Bay Bridge anchorage six. One leaving Bay Bridge ended up at Cape Charles. At Cape Charles an incredible 21 ships. CSX Newport News three, NS Norfolk two. A total of 34 ships mostly at anchor, doing nothing, not earning money for their owners. Only five were the bigger ones with nine hatches around 180,000 DWT, and only four were geared smaller ships, and may have been awaiting other cargoes than coal. Almost all were seven hatch vessels 75-100,000 DWT.

This supports what was said in the prior post. If CSX has cut resources so much they cannot supply crews, engines and cars to load this coal, international shippers will not have a good opinion. I watch the Ashland camera at times, and there seems to be a coal train or empty every day, sometimes more, and loads and empties go in both directions. Coal is world-wide competitive, and if the demand for USA coal right now is high, and the RR's cannot meet the demands, then we could loose some markets and export coal is the best hope right now. That might piss off the guy in the big White house.

enjoyed your view of the rail/water interface, esp in the Chesapeake and Delaware bay areas.

Bay Bridge works for the upper bay where the bridges connect the Eastern Shore, also known as the Delmarva
peninsula with the mainland of Maryland. Cape Charles anchorage works for the location near the mouth of the
Chesapeake Bay.

I enter my notes for those who may not a good grasp of the Chesapeake Bay area.

Live Coal Operations for DTA Newport News. You can see current dumps (rail), current vessel loadings, Tonnages and expected vessels.

http://www.dominionterminal.com/DTAWebApp/currentactivity.aspx

BMH

yesterday all six 'big ships' were at Baltimore or Bay Bridge, but one the ATTIKOS 178929 DWT moved down to the north end of the Cape Charles anchorage. Maybe the bottom at Cape Charles cannot hold the bigger ships. Last time I crossed the Bay-Bridge 'tunnel' ships were anchored east of there off Virginia Beach to the ocean. Not now; something must have changed that.

Have the NS export facilities been reduced in capacity?

I would suspect the coal operators would be raising hell if the railroads were at fault in the shipping chain

Posted from Android

(To be clear, I'm interested in whether this is a CSX issue, or a CSX plus NS issue, or something altogether different. Like fluctuations in the international coal shipping market or exchange rates)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/18 06:31 by Lackawanna484.

JLinDE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is in addition to the post by SOUCF25 on Feb
> 19, and the two replies, and supports them, I
> think. I like cargo ships almost as much as trains
> alto I know more about trains since I am a retired
> railroader, but I worked in a busy vessel port 50
> years ago in Saigon. I check a marine website
> every day or so to see if any VLCC's are in
> Delaware Bay, big box-ships coming up, or where
> the weekend Norfolk/Baltimore/ Philly container
> barge is. Recently I have noticed more than the
> usual number of ships at the Bay Bridge and Cape
> Charles anchorages (I may be using wrong names for
> them). Last night half - watching the Olympics, I
> decided to list them
>
> First, terminology. The old term for coal ships is
> 'collier'. But many modern ships carry coal and
> iron ore and other bulk commodities. The website I
> use calls them 'bulkers'. But I have a problem
> with that too. To me a bulker implies the ship has
> no on board cranes and requires dockside
> facilities to load and unload. But the website
> includes 'geared' ships with cranes as bulkers.
> Usually only smaller bulkers have cranes.
>
> So here is my research from appx 2000-2200 Feb 20,
> 2018 a Tuesday. Baltimore harbor loading one. Bay
> Bridge anchorage six. One leaving Bay Bridge ended
> up at Cape Charles. At Cape Charles an incredible
> 21 ships. CSX Newport News three, NS Norfolk two.
> A total of 34 ships mostly at anchor, doing
> nothing, not earning money for their owners. Only
> five were the bigger ones with nine hatches around
> 180,000 DWT, and only four were geared smaller
> ships, and may have been awaiting other cargoes
> than coal. Almost all were seven hatch vessels
> 75-100,000 DWT.
>
> This supports what was said in the prior post. If
> CSX has cut resources so much they cannot supply
> crews, engines and cars to load this coal,
> international shippers will not have a good
> opinion. I watch the Ashland camera at times, and
> there seems to be a coal train or empty every day,
> sometimes more, and loads and empties go in both
> directions. Coal is world-wide competitive, and if
> the demand for USA coal right now is high, and the
> RR's cannot meet the demands, then we could loose
> some markets and export coal is the best hope
> right now. That might piss off the guy in the big
> White house.


To be fair Ashland isn't really the best place to look to see export coal traffic. Yes, some trains to News do come from that way, but the vast majority run the C&O.

Cool. Thanks for sharing to all on this posting. Cheers! Jim

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,4492819

Related?

There has been a great pick up of coal traffic heading to Hampton Roads in the past year. I believe both CSX and NS are exporting at a rate 20-25+ million tons annually up from just over 10 million tons just two years ago. I would estimate that NS is easily running 4-6 coal/hopper trains to and from Lamberts Point.
CSX’s problem is that they don’t want to hire anybody and are now trying to run DPU trains down to Newport News . NS is hiring almost everywhere for conductors and have started running ID trains from Roanoke to Lamberts Point. I looked at the job openings them NS had 142 listings under operations and 1 for Road Mechanic for CSX.

Totallamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JLinDE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is in addition to the post by SOUCF25 on
> Feb
> > 19, and the two replies, and supports them, I
> > think. I like cargo ships almost as much as
> trains
> > alto I know more about trains since I am a
> retired
> > railroader, but I worked in a busy vessel port
> 50
> > years ago in Saigon. I check a marine website
> > every day or so to see if any VLCC's are in
> > Delaware Bay, big box-ships coming up, or where
> > the weekend Norfolk/Baltimore/ Philly container
> > barge is. Recently I have noticed more than the
> > usual number of ships at the Bay Bridge and
> Cape
> > Charles anchorages (I may be using wrong names
> for
> > them). Last night half - watching the Olympics,
> I
> > decided to list them
> >
> > First, terminology. The old term for coal ships
> is
> > 'collier'. But many modern ships carry coal and
> > iron ore and other bulk commodities. The website
> I
> > use calls them 'bulkers'. But I have a problem
> > with that too. To me a bulker implies the ship
> has
> > no on board cranes and requires dockside
> > facilities to load and unload. But the website
> > includes 'geared' ships with cranes as bulkers.
> > Usually only smaller bulkers have cranes.
> >
> > So here is my research from appx 2000-2200 Feb
> 20,
> > 2018 a Tuesday. Baltimore harbor loading one.
> Bay
> > Bridge anchorage six. One leaving Bay Bridge
> ended
> > up at Cape Charles. At Cape Charles an
> incredible
> > 21 ships. CSX Newport News three, NS Norfolk
> two.
> > A total of 34 ships mostly at anchor, doing
> > nothing, not earning money for their owners.
> Only
> > five were the bigger ones with nine hatches
> around
> > 180,000 DWT, and only four were geared smaller
> > ships, and may have been awaiting other cargoes
> > than coal. Almost all were seven hatch vessels
> > 75-100,000 DWT.
> >
> > This supports what was said in the prior post.
> If
> > CSX has cut resources so much they cannot
> supply
> > crews, engines and cars to load this coal,
> > international shippers will not have a good
> > opinion. I watch the Ashland camera at times,
> and
> > there seems to be a coal train or empty every
> day,
> > sometimes more, and loads and empties go in
> both
> > directions. Coal is world-wide competitive, and
> if
> > the demand for USA coal right now is high, and
> the
> > RR's cannot meet the demands, then we could
> loose
> > some markets and export coal is the best hope
> > right now. That might piss off the guy in the
> big
> > White house.
>
>
> To be fair Ashland isn't really the best place to
> look to see export coal traffic. Yes, some trains
> to News do come from that way, but the vast
> majority run the C&O.

There is not many cameras to watch export coal trains, just TO’s Sand patch, Ashland and Landgraff. Southwestern Pennsylvania and Northern West Virginia coal should still be running on the B&O east out of Grafton.

Posted from iPhone

Yes I know the RFP is not the best place to see Virginia coal moves. I was stationed at Ft Eustis 51 years ago and have logs of what C&O did then. Made some trips to N&W/NS after that in 80's/90's. Son went to college in Richmond and was there for five years with the last apartment with an eye-level view of C&O James River trestle. Summer 2010 was busy for the old C&O. So I do know a bit about Virginia coal routes, but do not go to see them now. With the Ashland camera available I decided to make a mostly 20 hour survey most days last December and that is where my volumes come from. I noted all freight trains, and was surprised at the coal/empty volume. Now I only check it about 0600-1200 to see if any big CSX trains are coming my way in afternoon or evening since I can get to the tracks in 7-10 min. I like big trains; and I'm not saying they are best or even more efficient. But checking for that, I still see coal and empties, both ways. Most are CSX tubs, but a few are VAPX (Virginia Power) rapid discharge hoppers, indicating power plant steam coal.

JLinDE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but a few are VAPX (Virginia Power)
> rapid discharge hoppers, indicating power plant
> steam coal.

Those would be trains going to "Wheelwright" which is the colloquial name for Virginia Dominion's Dutch Gap Power Station.

Thanks. What town is Wheelwright near? I know there is a planr south of Richmond north of Hopewell. Also sometime last week I saw a SB coal load on the RFP, 90 cars, of all CSX hopper car, not tubs. I thought this might be a train to one of the chemical companies in Hopewell, VA because when I looked at Google Earth several years ago it looked like hopper cars were there...

That's the place.

Right next to the Citie of Henricus park, east of I-95, north of Route 10.