Eastern Railroad Discussion > Funny colored Railroad Ties?

NS is rebuilding the siding at Delanson, NY on the former D&H, with lots and lots of new RR ties lying along the right of way.

It's a curious, nay a weird sight. Roughly half of the ties appear to be ordinary, dark brown creosoted RR ties. But the other half have the distinct greenish tinge of arsenic-pressure-treated timbers that you'd ordinarily think of for building a backyard deck.

New York (formerly known as the Empire State, now more accurately described as the "Nanny State") has made it nearly impossible for ordinary people to buy creosoted timbers, so I could imagine an RR going over to ordinary pressure treated wood. But for only half of the new ties? And no, it's not like the green ones go in some areas and the brown ones elsewhere. These stacks of ties are thoroughly intermixed along the ROW, and it appears they will be installed that way.

Am I witnessing a test case, a field trial to see if P/T wood is OK to use? Is this same thing going on elsewhere on NS?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Could be Copper Napthenate (CuN) treated ties intermingled with the good old creosote ties. Do a search for Railway Tie Association (RTA) FAQs and you can find a lot of information on the efficacy of treatments. So far -- as far as wooden toes are concerned -- nothing seems to be better than creosote and its derivatives. I can say that newer pressure treating plants are much cleaner than the old ones -- thanks in part to EPA and the American Wood Protection Association. Full disclosure -- I used to be a member of RTA.

Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/18 16:10 by BCutter.

Maybe your looking at these green ties that failed to be fully painted.
Trains Newswire
NS accuses crosstie supplier of fraud

By R G Edmonson | October 31, 2017
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. — Just because a tie looks black, it doesn't mean it's been properly preserved for railroad use. It's something Norfolk Southern officials discovered, and they are now accusing a Birmingham, Ala., tie supplier of fraud and conspiracy to pass off improperly treated ties that have begun deteriorating on the railroad's rights-of-way.

In a complaint filed Oct. 23 with the U.S. District Court in Birmingham, the railroad alleges that Boatright Railroad Products sold some 4.75 million defective rail, switch and bridge ties between 2009 and 2014. NS alleges that Boatright used improper wood, improperly dried wood, and improperly treated it with substances to make them look like they had been treated with creosote.

Norfolk Southern also alleges that Boatright paid a former NS track inspector, working as a consultant, some $128,000 to certify that the ties had been treated to meet the railroad's standards.

NS is seeking $50 million in damages, an amount that could triple if it proves that Boatright was engaged in a civil conspiracy under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act.

The railroad's complaint says that Boatright principals Shane Boatright and John Bookout told employees to “simply 'make them black' by whatever means necessary — so as to mimic the appearance of having been properly treated in accordance with the NS specifications.”

Norfolk Southern alleges that Boatright coated ties with motor oil, anti-freeze, paint, and a chemical compound “which, when applied to a rail tie, would mimic the appearance of a properly-treated tie at a dramatic cost savings.”

Boatright sold its tie-treating facility to another company in 2014, according to the complaint. In June 2016 former Boatright employees tipped off NS about the alleged fraud. NS began an investigation “and discovered thousands of such railroad ties were degrading at a much faster pace than expected.”

Properly treated hardwood ties may sell between $15 and $35 a piece, according to the Railway Tie Association, depending upon quality, size, and demand. Treated ties may last as many as 30 years before being replaced helping spike or clips hold track gauge while also distributing a train's weight through the ballast and roadbed.

Court records say Boatright had not filed its response to the charges as of Oct. 30.

PlyWoody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe your looking at these green ties that failed
> to be fully painted.

I'd say that's highly unlikely, because the ones he's inquiring about have yet to even be installed.

Uh oh.

Posted from Android

they had then laying on the port road

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Am I witnessing a test case, a field trial to see
> if P/T wood is OK to use? Is this same thing
> going on elsewhere on NS?
>
If you wanted to do a scientifically accurate test, you would intersperse the creosote (control) and "green" (test subject) ties at various locations. That way you can rule out different environmental conditions affecting the test results. Railroads are naturally conservative, so I can understand them not wanting to jump into a new technology with both feet until they understand all the consequences.

I have no idea what NS is doing in other places, but with a recent rehab in Maine of the former CP and BAR, Maine Northern (a subsidiary of New Brunswick Southern/JD Irving Forest Products) used pressure treated ties exclusively. I'm not sure if Irving was the ultimate supplier of the ties or not.

GTD