Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSX engineers watching trains by.

C S X   T R A N S P O R T A T I O N                                                 
OCTOBER 8, 2018                                                                                                                        
 HEADQUARTERS    SUB SYSTEM BULLETIN       002                                                                                        
TO:         T&E CREWS AND ALL CONCERNED                                    
SUBJECT:    4250.3 RULE MODIFICATION AND GLOSSARY CHANGES                  
EFFECTIVE:  0001HRS, NOVEMBER 5, 2018                                                                                                               
 ITEM 1 - 4250.3 OBSERVATION OF TRAINS                                                                                                                  
EQUIPMENT HANDLING RULE 4250.3 HAS BEEN REPLACED IN ITS ENTIRETY WITH      THE FOLLOWING:                                                                                                                                        4250.3  THE CREWMEMBERS OF A STOPPED TRAIN MUST INSPECT A PASSING                 
TRAIN ON THE GROUND FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE TRACK WHERE DUTIES             
AND TERRAIN PERMIT.                                                                                                                                                                                                         
A. THE LOCOMOTIVE OPERATOR OF THE STANDING TRAIN MUST:                                                                                                  
1. IF POSSIBLE, STOP THE TRAIN AT A LOCATION THAT SAFELY ALLOWS               INSPECTION OF PASSING TRAINS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE TRACK,                                                                                        
2. PRIOR TO LEAVING THE LOCOMOTIVE CAB, MAKE A SUFFICIENT                     APPLICATION OF THE AUTOMATIC BRAKE, FULLY APPLY THE INDEPENDENT            BRAKE, PLACE THE GENERATOR FIELD SWITCH TO "OPEN/OFF" POSITION,            REMOVE THE REVERSER, AND                                                                                                                           3. PERFORM THE INSPECTION OF THE PASSING TRAIN FROM THE SAME SIDE             OF HIS/HER STANDING TRAIN.                                                                                                                    
 B. ALL OTHER CREW MEMBERS MUST BE ON THE GROUND WITH AT LEAST 1 PERSON        OF THE STANDING TRAIN PERFORMING THE INSPECTION OF THE PASSING             TRAIN FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE.                                                                                                                    
 C. ALL EMPLOYEES ON THE GROUND MUST NOT BE:                                                                                                             
A. BETWEEN THE RAILS OF ANY TRACKS, OR                                     B. CLOSER THAN 30 FEET FROM THE PASSING TRAIN.                                                                                                ITEM 2 - OPERATING RULE GLOSSARY CHANGES                                                                                                               
THE OPERATING RULE DEFINITIONS IN THE OPERATING RULES GLOSSARY HAVE        BEEN REPLACED WITH THE FOLLOWING:          UNATTENDED EQUIPMENT - EQUIPMENT LEFT STANDING IN SUCH A MANNER            THAT NO QUALIFIED EMPLOYEE IS CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE EQUIPMENT TO TAKE        SAFE AND EFFECTIVE ACTION TO CONTROL ITS MOVEMENT.                                                                                                    UNMANNED - LOCOMOTIVES OR ON-TRACK EQUIPMENT LEFT STANDING WITH NO         ASSIGNED EMPLOYEE CLOSE ENOUGH TO TAKE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE ACTION TO        CONTROL ITS MOVEMENT.                                                                                                                            ISSUED BY OPERATING RULES DEPARTMENT

Wow!   On BNSF, crew members are explicitly NOT supposed to cross a track for the sole purpose of doing a roll by inspection.  

NS eliminated the roll by inspection years ago.

Some employees, myself included still get down on occasion to watch a train by if only to stretch their legs for a bit.

Posted from iPhone

That should be interesting if they ever go to one man crews.

John

I don't know how it has been done before this so thanks for any clarification. In the past, did they have the conductor do it, and the engineer on board would have the train in a more ready state to move once they could? By having both crewmembers off, do they have to tie the train down more than previously, meaning it'll take longer to resume operation?

Posted from Android

Also, I wonder what percentage of locations would even allow the "30 feet from main" on both sides. In the east there are so many areas without that kind of open space.

Posted from Android

At night Engineer in cab checking train with light shining on train has a better view 

There was a law board several years ago that said the engineer didn't have to ge on the ground.


 

When I still ran for CSXT on the Pensacola Division, the rules allowed the Engineer to inspect the opposing train from the Cab.
Wonder what brought this about?

Steve Panzik
Chiloquin, Or

No one on the train? Better tie down the train first, release test then do the roll by. At least that’s how I would aproach it on the BNSF. They want to play games? We can play games. God forbid it’s a key train and we have to do the briefing with the dispatch too.

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one on the train? Better tie down the train
> first, release test then do the roll by. At least
> that’s how I would aproach it on the BNSF. They
> want to play games? We can play games. God forbid
> it’s a key train and we have to do the briefing
> with the dispatch too.

The CSX directive doesn't say that. I wonder if the "glossary change" is intended to bypass that safety practice? The assigned person would be on the ground presumably near the train.

FWIW, I can see a lot of folks notifying the DS that the local topography requires them to tie down their train to fully comply.

Posted from Android

"Where duties and terrain permit", there's an out.

matts15487 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Where duties and terrain permit", there's an out.

But then it said, "STOP THE TRAIN AT A LOCATION THAT SAFELY ALLOWS INSPECTION OF PASSING TRAINS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE TRACK".  

mapboy

mapboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> matts15487 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Where duties and terrain permit", there's an
> out.
>
> But then it said, "STOP THE TRAIN AT A LOCATION
> THAT SAFELY ALLOWS INSPECTION OF PASSING TRAINS
> FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE TRACK".  
>
> mapboy

You left out IF POSSIBLE...

It goes into effect November 5. Plenty of time to revise or cancel it.

If this "rule modification" enhances safety, why is it not in effect immediately?
Are CSX engineers now known as "locomotive operators?"

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one on the train? Better tie down the train
> first, release test then do the roll by. At least
> that’s how I would aproach it on the BNSF. They
> want to play games? We can play games. God forbid
> it’s a key train and we have to do the briefing
> with the dispatch too.

Did you read the bulletin? The unattended train is covered. What game are they playing?

The definition of unattended could certainly apply to an engineer who has to walk 50 feet from the train and climb an embankment to observe the passing train.

It will be interesting to see how these tules play out on the ground.

WE have a public law board which says I don't have to do it....so I shall not. The people who make the rules don't read old law boards and things like this happens...it should be revised soon. 

I see a host of problems with this, some of which were outlined above. But the rule modification doesn't even make sense grammatically:

"THE CREWMEMBERS OF A STOPPED TRAIN MUST INSPECT A PASSING TRAIN ON THE GROUND FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE TRACK WHERE DUTIES AND TERRAIN PERMIT."
If a passing train is "on the ground", it won't be passing for long. Plus, it's going to take a really long time to inspect it, as the crewmembers of the standing train will have to walk perphaps a mile or more to complete the inspection.
BETTER:  WHERE DUTIES AND TERRAIN PERMIT, THE CREWMEMBERS OF A STOPPED TRAIN MUST INSPECT, ON THE GROUND AND FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE TRACK, A PASSING TRAIN .

"ALL EMPLOYEES ON THE GROUND MUST NOT BE: A. BETWEEN THE RAILS OF ANY TRACKS"
So it's okay if an individual employee on the ground is between the rails, so long as ALL of them aren't??
BETTER:  EACH EMPLOYEE ON THE GROUND MUST NOT BE:  A. BETWEEN THE RAILS OF ANY TRACKS.

Where do I send the bill for my consulting work?

-Ted