Eastern Railroad Discussion > NS vs CSXT Intermodal Volume Questions

Good Evening:

Norfolk Southern claims to have the most extensive intermodal network in the eastern United States. I also read not long ago numbers showing NS handling more intermodal traffic annually than CSXT (I do not recall where I read that and do not have the figures handy). My question is what makes NS more attractive to intermodal shippers than CSXT? Looking at a map, it seems like CSXT routes could be as competitive, if not more so, than NS in most lanes. I know when watching NS west of Duncannon, PA on the Pittsburgh Line it seems like there is often a parade of intermodal trains in both directions.

Thank you in advance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/19 02:59 by PRR_4859.

I think NS has the advantage East-West (Chicago-NY) while CSX has a better system for more of the I-95 North-South region

Posted from iPhone

NS has the most direct route from Chicago into eastern PA and New Jersey. There are huge amounts of volume in that lane. NS has an advantage in the I-81 corridor (Atlanta and Midsouth to the northeast), as well as the Meridian Speedway from Texas to Atlanta that beats any CSX offering.

Posted from iPhone

CSX has judged that certain intermodal shipments do not make them money, so they have pulled out of those markets.   Not interested.  Go away.  Sometimes it involves the interchange with western carriers.  

The key is in the word "exensive", meaning larger area...   NS has lines west to Kansas City and Des Moines, CSX doesn't.

Due to competition (with trucks) the intermodal profit margin isn't what it once was, isn't really that high, and often has severe penalties for delays, and thus some railroads have aimed at higher margin less time critical and less risky traffic, and concentrated their intermodel efforts to only those corridors where they can maintain a great operating ratio with it...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/19 14:05 by CSX602.

Lets not forget that csx has clearance issues in a few places along the eastern seaboard.

Service quality matters, both the underlying service reliability and the responsiveness of customer service and line management. The containerline I worked for from 2000 through 2006 had a nice contact structure with NS and CSX. We were supposed to keep each of them within a band of 40 to 60 percent of our business. (More typically, containerlines have done contracts granting a single railroad in a region 95% of the biz. So you're either with BNSF or UP, NS or CSX). The 40-60 deal was nice because it gave us flexibility--if our carrier was underperforming in a lane, we could change things around more easily.

Over the years, we found ourselves having to shift more and more business from CSX to NS. After I left the company, the trend continued, and they scrapped the 40-60 requirement because they needed to almost completely cut CSX out of the picture.

We used CSX in Columbus. They frequently mix-loaded cars, and then the Chicago ramp did a terrible job of reworking them. Customer Service would B/S and claim they didn't have enough containers billed to Hobart to load a full car, not bothering the check and notice that my company alone had 16 FEU scattered over 3-4 mix-loaded cars. Or a hot 20 might have been left behind, and they'd claim it was an odd 20 (which is what customer service--or do you say "solutions" or "experience"?--at all railroads always say). Of course, they'd forget to notice that I had 3 other 20s left behind. Nothing but lame exuses and poor performance.

NS, by comparison, needed much less oversight on our part. Once they had a box in their hands, or a block of cars interchanged to them, things would run smoothly. If I needed a favor--whether a late-gate, making sure a hot import or export going to Norfolk got on train 234 instead of 236, or accommodating a late interchange from BNSF, it was either done or I'd have an honest answer on why they couldn't help this time, or said they'd try but couldn't make any promises. But most often, it was done.

I know that things may have changed in recent years, such as the Otto debacle, but I'd still bet on NS being the better operation. Another factor was CSX's hiring and promotion practices. CSX is BIG, BIG, BIG into diversity & inclusion and meeting self-imposed quotas for hiring more women. You could see what was happening by looking at peoples profiles on LinkedIn. Little Buffy with a degree in Sociology or Human Resources (or at best, general business management) gets into the CSX Management Trainee program. And there were a lot of Buffys who did. Then they get rotated and promoted every 12-18 months. WIthin 3 years they're a ramp manager. You go GRRRLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!

Bandito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 Little Buffy with a degree in Sociology or Human Resources (or at best, general business management) gets into the
> CSX Management Trainee program. And there were a lot of Buffys who did. Then they get rotated and promoted every 12-18 months. WIthin 3 years
> they're a ramp manager. You go GRRRLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!

You must have an 'inside' person at CSX telling you their secrets!   I WAS inside, and you, sir, hit the nail on the head most perfectly! 

We had a new ramp manager or assistant ramp manager every 2 years, just like clockwork.  Men, women, it didn't make any difference.  Right out of college?  You're instantly an assistant ramp manager.  18-24 months later, you're a full manager at the same ramp or another.  It was always laughable watching the college kids trying to tell the 30+ years experienced manager of the contractor yard jockey crew how to do their job better.  But hey...the piece of paper wins every time.  They got promoted and the contractor manager was let go a couple years ago.
 

BRAtkinson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bandito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>  Little Buffy with a degree in Sociology or Human
> Resources (or at best, general business
> management) gets into the
> > CSX Management Trainee program. And there were a
> lot of Buffys who did. Then they get rotated and
> promoted every 12-18 months. WIthin 3 years
> > they're a ramp manager. You go
> GRRRLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> You must have an 'inside' person at CSX telling
> you their secrets!   I WAS inside, and you, sir,
> hit the nail on the head most perfectly! 
>
> We had a new ramp manager or assistant ramp
> manager every 2 years, just like clockwork.  Men,
> women, it didn't make any difference.  Right out
> of college?  You're instantly an assistant ramp
> manager.  18-24 months later, you're a full
> manager at the same ramp or another.  It was
> always laughable watching the college kids trying
> to tell the 30+ years experienced manager of the
> contractor yard jockey crew how to do their job
> better.  But hey...the piece of paper wins every
> time.  They got promoted and the contractor
> manager was let go a couple years ago.
>  

Agree with both of you on CSX management. You got it right. I believe the type of people you describe are responsible for the big mistake made at North Baltimore with the lets sort all the containers and put them on different trains, so we can fill up more double stack cars, and kill intermodal transit times in both directions.

gmojim