Eastern Railroad Discussion > 79 MPH Speed Limit???

No, not a question of passenger train speeds.

Do you drive max 79 MPH?

70 mph is the posted speed limit on many eastern interstate highways. But most traffic flows faster than that. It seems that sub 80 is defectors speed limit. On I81 in Virginia they even have signs that over 80 mph is Agressive Driving.

Do your railfan instincts cause you to drive 79? Any other rail fan habits when you drive?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/19 05:25 by Tominde.

I drive the speed limit plus 3, but when 65, then at 63, if 70 (which is rare where I am), than at 65. I lack any engineer instincts.

Whether railfanning or not, please keep in mind that in almost any state 20 mph over posted is considered reckless driving - a far worse charge than just the speeding ticket and cost, with extra points, bigger fine, and possibility of license suspension.   In VA there is separate code that allows equivalent charge at over 80 mph even on interstate highway posted for 70 mph (and thus doing 81 on I-81 in VA is taking a big risk).  Those codes and the enforcement are done because there have been some really bad wrecks and state officials including police are trying to get the highway fatality rate down (and speed is usually the primary cause of fatal highway accidents).  

BTW, anybody doing even 10 above posted on some secondary roadways are putting their lives at risk...  There are roadways design considerations, from curvature to advance visibility, to intersection/interchange on-ramp and off-ramp merge  and curvature designs that are done with the posted speed or just above in mind.  And those limitations are not always signed and could come into play rapidly in bad weather or some usual circumstance (such as a driver pulling out from side-street or entrance directly in front of someone).  Thus a person driving at or above the design speed for a section could find themselves in a life threatening situation on their own reckless account, or not be able to avoid bad accident should another driver make a mistake.

Being a transportation/traffic engineer I've seen a lot of unfortunate crashes where both drivers were at fault.  The first for making a bad driving mistake and the second for being at such a high speed that they couldn't avoid the crash.   And if a driver is doing well above posted speed then they could be charged as being at fault even if that other driver pulled out into their path.

 

when i worked traffic, 10 mph over the posted speed limit was a ticket.  5 mph over the 25 mph speed limit in a residential zone (where children play) was a ticket.  

any speed over the posted speed limit is a legal reason for a traffic stop AND a driver's license/warrant check.   a lot of people's attitudes earn people tickets for a few miles over the posted speed limit. 

in arizona, the interstate's speed limit is 75 mph and i don't exceed 80, most of the time cruising at 75.  in california, i just  don't exceed 5 mph over the posted speed limit on their interstates............

66 

I've paced Amtrak at 79 mph in Montana for photographic purposes, though I'm not sure I'd do that anymore (was almost 10 years ago) Driving truck for a living trains a guy to just set the cruise at the limit (or a couple mph down on four lane highways) and roll with it. My truck is governed at 110 km/h, which is the limit on 4 lane divided highways in Alberta, so I often set my cruise to 106 or 107 to maintain a little bit of headroom for an overtake if needed.

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Darren Boes
Lethbridge, AB
Southern Alberta Railfan

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I drive the speed limit plus 3, but when 65, then
> at 63, if 70 (which is rare where I am), than at
> 65. I lack any engineer instincts.


????????

I usually run eight mph over the speed limit on the interstates, five or six mph over on secondary roads and two to three over on residential streets.  People still fly right on by me and I pass a few.  Never had a speeding ticket.  Wish law enforcement would do more with tailgaters and those who sit right on your ass at stop lights.  Wish they would hang out at school zones during the restricted times more often as well.
BTW, I'm retired engineer.  Always tried to run track speed (unless on OT or certain kinds of trips) and when I found myself one or two over I took action to bring that down.  Never got into any kind of trouble with that.

On “surface” streets; I drive the speed limit whether posted at 35, 40 or 45. Speeding on a surface street or through an active school zone warrant what I refer to as “stupid” tickets. On interstates; I’ll normally drive 3-5 mph over the posted speed.

A story:
About 19 or 20 years ago, some film student at Georgia State who as I recollect had received a number of speeding tickets; set out to do a video I think was titled “Reflections on the 55 mph speed limit.”

With a number of friends in separate vehicles, they merged onto the west side perimeter (I285 for non-Atlantans) and proceeded to spread out into each lane, draw abreast of each other then slow to the then posted speed of 55 mph. Within moments they had a helluva jam up behind them with people honking, cursing and in one case, passing on the shoulder and shearing the mirror off a disabled vehicle.

After seeing the video; a GDOT official was questioned and I have remembered his obviously facetious quote to this time - “of course we set the speed limit at 55 in hopes the people going 80 will move to the right and allow those going 90 to pass”.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/19 07:29 by Juniata.

Must not be any Michigan drivers on here. Drive 10 mph over the speed limit on a interstate and you get passed like your sitting still most of the time.

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CSX602 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> BTW, anybody doing even 10 above posted on some
> secondary roadways are putting their lives at
> risk...  There are roadways design
> considerations, from curvature to advance
> visibility, to intersection/interchange on-ramp
> and off-ramp merge  and curvature designs that
> are done with the posted speed or just above in
> mind.

This depends on where you are.  I have driven roads in WV and the Carolinas that are 50 or 55 mph speed limits and that same road in MD would be 30 mph.  Same road profile, curvature, etc. so it must all depend on the traffic engineering people in that area as to what they feel is "safe" speed.

And most police I know don't even make a stop for less than 15 over (unless a school zone or work zone).  Around my area the speed cameras are set at 12mph over the limit, and that is in school zones.

Now for the original question, I usually do about 9 over, except on highways that are less than 70 speed limits more like 12 over as I don't really feel like getting run over.  A recent trip on I77 and I81 I set my cruise to 78 and had a smooth ride, no need to worry about radar traps as I was less than 10 over.

Which brings me to a question - why is it 79mph for trains, why does that one MPH make a difference?  I see RR speed signs that say 40 freight, 60 pass, on the NEC see 110 and 125, so curious as to why 79 is the magic number for so many places.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/19 09:49 by Cole42.

Just don’t the guy driving in the #1 lane (nearest center) at 3mph under the speed limit (clear/dry) with your left turn signal actuated    for the past two miles..... 

>
> Which brings me to a question - why is it 79mph
> for trains, why does that one MPH make a
> difference?  I see RR speed signs that say 40
> freight, 60 pass, on the NEC see 110 and 125, so
> curious as to why 79 is the magic number for so
> many places.

ICC signal regulations from the late 1940s prescribed that trains operating at 80 mph or more had to be equipped with cab signals and/or automatic train stop devices. Thus 79 mph limit for lines not so equipped, which were most lines.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/19 10:05 by czephyr17.

czephyr17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Which brings me to a question - why is it 79mph
> > for trains, why does that one MPH make a
> > difference?  I see RR speed signs that say 40
> > freight, 60 pass, on the NEC see 110 and 125,
> so
> > curious as to why 79 is the magic number for so
> > many places.
>
> ICC signal regulations from the late 1940s
> prescribed that trains operating at 80 mph or more
> had to be equipped with cab signals and/or
> automatic train stop devices. Thus 79 mph limit
> for lines not so equipped, which were most lines.
>
>
....and if I recall correctly, the feds assumed that the railroads would respond by upgrading the signal systems on a lot more of their rail lines to keep their trains' speed up. But by then the writing was already starting to appear on the wall for passenger trains, and the railroads' response was just to comply with 79 mph on lines where they didn't already have cab signals and/or ATS.
 

Most road Speed limits are for revenue generation rather than safety 

holiwood Wrote:
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> Most road Speed limits are for revenue generation
> rather than safety 

Right. I must remember that on my next highway design project <eyeroll>.

10 miles over has worked in 60,000 miles driving in almost every state in the last two years. Advice from last trooper I spoke to three years ago,just set the cruise control. I don't slow down when an officer is simply watching traffic, but do change lanes and slow way down if their lights are on, unlike most auto drovers

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toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> ....and if I recall correctly, the feds assumed
> that the railroads would respond by upgrading the
> signal systems on a lot more of their rail lines
> to keep their trains' speed up. But by then the
> writing was already starting to appear on the wall
> for passenger trains, and the railroads' response
> was just to comply with 79 mph on lines where they
> didn't already have cab signals and/or ATS.
>  

This is true for most roads, but AT&SF, ACL, UP, CB&Q, C&NW that I know of, did install ATS and ACS after the 1949 ICC order.  That allowed those roads to maintain speed limits in excess of 79 MPH where they would have had to be reduced otherwise.   BSB 

I like to peer far into the distance looking for green signals, gear down on steep grades making F-7 dynamic brake sounds, and occasionally look in my side mirror to "look her over" for any hotboxes on the vehicle. When I speed, I'm making up time with the westbound Capitol Limited between Cumberland and Hyndman.
Seriously, anyone who drives or has driven in Maryland knows that the speed limits here are only a suggestion.
I've been at it for about 4 decades, driving everything from 20-ton beer trucks in Garrett County down to a Ford Escort doing courier runs to federal offices and bases in Montgomery County, and have accumulated hundreds of thousands of miles.
I have gotten 2 speeding tickets (1979, 1985), and 1 camera ticket (2017). Either I've been very lucky, or more likely all those miles have taught me to be alert, fast reactions in times of emergency can be a life-saver.
Even with the new "move-over laws', the officers out on the highways are very wary about pulling people over for a speeding ticket , too many have been hit in recent years.

kevink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> holiwood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Most road Speed limits are for revenue
> generation
> > rather than safety 
>
> Right. I must remember that on my next highway
> design project .

Well, I'll say that MANY of the speed limits I see are completely out of touch with reality, and serve no practical purpose OTHER than revenue generation.  I'll also say that inattentive driving, impaired driving, and driving too fast for current conditions are FAR MORE likely to cause an accident than just speed alone.  The ONLY reason I don't usually drive faster than 72 MPH on the interstate is that in most vehicles, you start to take a HUGE MPG hit once you get above 70. When I go through Oklahoma where it is 75 and I run 77, I lose a good 4-5 MPH over running 72 in a 70 zone in our small SUV.  However on regular roads with speed limits between 35 MPH and 50 MPH, I am ROUTINELY 5-15 over the speed limit.

It's interesting that on I-15 in Utah which was raised to 80 that a lot of people still do 75, the
old limit. Guess that's a more comfortable speed.

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