Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSXT/Louisville & Indiana RR Questions

Good Evening:

I was in the Louisville, KY area this evening and saw a Louisville & Indiana (LIRC) train come into their yard at Clarksville, IN off a branch that went east just north of their yard, a southbound grain train with NS power and a northbound CSXT autorack train soon after. How many trains per day does CSXT run on the LIRC and do any CSXT trains go all the way to Indianapolis?

Also, does CSXT dispatch the LIRC? I remember hearing a few years ago that CSXT put a bunch of money into the line and received a permanent easment on the line. Is it all dark territory with PTC or were signals installed? What is the maximum speed on the main to Indianapolis?

Lastly, was the branch that goes east just north of the yard former B&O or another road? It looks like it crossed the main on a diamond at one time.

I know it is a lot of questions, but I appreciate any information.

Thank you in advance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/21 18:50 by PRR_4859.

The yard you saw is Jeff Yard in Jeffersonville. Former PRR yard. CSX runs about a half dozen northbounds per day over the LIRC. Some turn east at Seymour to take the Indiana Sub (former B&O) to Cincinnati; others continue north to Indianapolis. There is one daily southbound (Q687) from Indy to Louisville. The grain train would have been retunring to NS at Louisville after having gone north to Edinburgh to load there.  Multilevel (automotive) is a staple of CSX traffic through Louisville.  LIRC dipatches all trains over their line from an office in Jeff. They are connected to CSX dispatch so that both roads can plan their train moves. 

LIRC is all dark territitory and there is no plan to install PTC. Speed limit on LIRC is 50 mph and trains run at that speed. The branch line is the former B&O Nabb branch that at one time extended to North Vernon, IN. Currently it provides LIRC and CSX access to customers near Charlestown, IN and to the Port of Jeffersonville. Yes it did cross the former PRR at that point for the B&O to reach the K&IT at New Albany, IN.  Boyd Tower stood there.  
 

Baxtersta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The yard you saw is Jeff Yard in Jeffersonville.
> Former PRR yard. CSX runs about a half dozen
> northbounds per day over the LIRC. Some turn east
> at Seymour to take the Indiana Sub (former B&O) to
> Cincinnati; others continue north to Indianapolis.
> There is one daily southbound (Q687) from Indy to
> Louisville. The grain train would have been
> retunring to NS at Louisville after having gone
> north to Edinburgh to load there.  Multilevel
> (automotive) is a staple of CSX traffic through
> Louisville.  LIRC dipatches all trains over their
> line from an office in Jeff. They are connected to
> CSX dispatch so that both roads can plan their
> train moves. 
>
> LIRC is all dark territitory and there is no plan
> to install PTC. Speed limit on LIRC is 50 mph and
> trains run at that speed. The branch line is the
> former B&O Nabb branch that at one time extended
> to North Vernon, IN. Currently it provides LIRC
> and CSX access to customers near Charlestown, IN
> and to the Port of Jeffersonville. Yes it did
> cross the former PRR at that point for the B&O to
> reach the K&IT at New Albany, IN.  Boyd Tower
> stood there.  
>  

------------

Does the LCL see any northbound traffic now?

Neil

Thank you for the info. Was Boyd Tower controlled by the B&O or PRR? Also, does CSXT still serve the Nabb branch or is it all done by LIRC?

Lastly, does CSXT or LIRC maintain the lines?

Thank you again.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/21 07:07 by PRR_4859.

Do CSX-employed crews operate the CSX trains traversing the L&I? 

About three or four northbound CSX trains come up the LIRC as far as Seymour each day, then turn east on the B&O to Cincinnati.  

Currently the only regular CSX trains that run the entire length of the LIRC are Q687 southbound and Q688 northbound.  They carry both mixed freight and auto racks.  

A couple of times a month, CSX may also run a unit potash (usually with CP power), grain, or ethanol load or empty over the entire LIRC.  

(Before the pandemic, CSX had been running 2-4 auto rack trains a day northbound into Indianapolis, with about the same number of Louisville-Seymour trains that run now.  When the coronavirus closed the Louisville auto plants, CSX removed all of its traffic from the LIRC during the worst of the lockdowns, then slowly began restablishing trackage rights trains.)  

LIRC is generally unsignalled; however, a brand new passing track was installed about a year ago on the south side of Franklin, Indiana, replacing the shorter Elvin siding.  Elvin, which has hand-thrown switches, remains in service as a storage track.  The new passing track at Franklin is a CTC island with dispatcher-controlled switches.  

A couple of years ago, another new passing siding had been installed south of Scottsburg, Indiana.  I haven't been down there, but that siding may also be a CTC island as well.  In addition, the interlocking and connection with CSX at Seymour have been upgraded, so the connection switch there between LIRC and CSX may also be dispatcher-controlled.  

CSX seems to frequently switch up which routes trains run between Cincinnati and Louisville.  Right now, there may be a work curfew on the Indiana Sub that may have altered the routing for some trains.  The following are the scheduled road trains and the line they’re currently profiled to run:

•LCL Sub
Q142 Jacksonville Duval, FL - North Baltimore, OH daily
Q143 North Baltimore, OH - Jacksonville Duval, FL daily
Q202 Baldwin, FL - Walbridge, OH daily
Q203 Walbridge, OH - Baldwin, FL daily
Q205 East Brookfield, MA - Louisville, KY daily
Q217 Philadelphia Greenwich, PA - O’Bannon, KY daily
Q505 Cincinnati, OH - Louisville, KY daily
Q573 Cincinnati, OH - Nashville, TN daily
Q574 Nashville, TN - Cincinnati, OH daily
Q575 Cincinnati, OH - Nashville, TN daily
Q576 Nashville, TN - Cincinnati, OH daily

•LIRC / Indiana Sub
Q216 Louisville, KY - Philadelphia Greenwich, PA daily
Q352 Louisville, KY - Hammond, IN (IHB Gibson) daily
Q504 Louisville, KY - Cincinnati, OH daily

•LIRC
Q687 Avon, IN - Louisville, KY daily
Q688 Louisville, KY - Avon, IN daily

Andrew

OK, since we have a knowledgeable group here....

What is the operating schedule these days for LIRC's own trains?

PRR 4859  -- CSX serves the Nabb branch, LIRC does not. It is CSX RoW.  My recall is that each railraod maintains the track it owns  -- thus LIRC maintains its tracks even though CSX had paid to have them upgraded.  (But I have not read the contract in a long time.)  Someone had mentioned the "signalled" sidings at Franklin and Scottsburg. My understanding is that the engine crew can punch a button from the locomotive to get switch alignment and appropriate indication. These same types of signals also are in use at the north end of Jeff yard.  Thus it is common at Jeff to see a northbound heading at you adjacent to a "signal" displaying a green aspect southbound.  

Regarding the crews of CSX trains travelling on the LIRC, they are CSX personnel, qualified for this route. It is not unusual for a northbound train crew getting ready to depart Osborn yard in Louisville to not be certain if they will go LIRC or   LCL. Most crews are qualified to go either way. Dispatcher determines, obvilously influenced by by southbound traffic on the LCL, length of train and other factors.  Trains that definitly will go LIRC are those that have set offs or pickups at Butlerville, the long siding east of North Vernon.  

Baxtersta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PRR 4859  -- CSX serves the Nabb branch, LIRC
> does not. It is CSX RoW.  My recall is that each
> railraod maintains the track it owns  -- thus
> LIRC maintains its tracks even though CSX had paid
> to have them upgraded.  (But I have not read the
> contract in a long time.)  Someone had mentioned
> the "signalled" sidings at Franklin and
> Scottsburg. My understanding is that the engine
> crew can punch a button from the locomotive to get
> switch alignment and appropriate indication. These
> same types of signals also are in use at the north
> end of Jeff yard.  Thus it is common at Jeff to
> see a northbound heading at you adjacent to a
> "signal" displaying a green aspect southbound.  

Thank you. I saw a LIRC train coming off the Nabb Branch with 4 cars. I assumed the LIRC did all the work rather than CSXT



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/21 12:42 by PRR_4859.

Interesting thread. I'm assuming all of the CSX trains that exit the LIRC at Seymour head east to Cincinnati. 

If that's correct, that's quite a circuitous routing for Q352 from Louisville to Hammond (via Cincy and Deshler presumably). I think I see why, for a favorable connection into IHB/Gibson from the east off the Chicago line at Willow Creek, but that's a lot of extra miles.

I also assume the Walbridge trains run via Deshler too, but hang a right there to gain the direct ex-C&O route to Walbridge at Fostoria. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/21 23:53 by pbouzide.

pbouzide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting thread. I'm assuming all of the CSX
> trains that exit the LIRC at Seymour head east to
> Cincinnati. 
>
> If that's correct, that's quite a circuitous
> routing for Q352 from Louisville to Hammond (via
> Cincy and Deshler presumably). I think I see why,
> for a favorable connection into IHB/Gibson from
> the east off the Chicago line at Willow Creek, but
> that's a lot of extra miles.

Actually, Q352 hangs a right from the B&O at Sidney, OH to go to Ridgeway, OH on the Big Four, then either goes north on theT&OC or first makes a loop down to the Honda plant near Marysville before going north on the T&OC to get onto the westbound B&O main at Galatea. (It could be that a local brings the Hondas up to Ridgeway for it, but I just don't know.) Whatever it does to get the Honda traffic, the Honda traffic is the reason for the circuitous routing. It's a real PSR prize-winner -- I find it hard to believe they save any money by combining the Louisville-Gibson traffic with the Marysville-Gibson traffic when so many extra miles are required covering so many crew districts, but it probably satisfies somebody's "fewer train starts" metric. And there must also be automotive traffic that it works at Cincinnati for them to not just run it to Indy on the LIRC and then straight east to Ridgeway on the Big Four....
>
> I also assume the Walbridge trains run via Deshler
> too, but hang a right there to gain the direct
> ex-C&O route to Walbridge at Fostoria.

This is how these trains normally run at the Walbridge end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/21 05:46 by toledopatch.

toledopatch asked:

>>  What is the operating schedule these days for LIRCs own trains?

Midpoint for LIRC own trains is the former PRR yard just north of Columbus, Indiana.  (It was known as Brook during PRR, PC, and Conrail days.)  The crew for LIRC's Z550 train reportedly comes on duty there at 9 a.m.  They switch customers near Edinburgh and around Franklin, then continue north to Indianapolis to interchange traffic with INRD before returning south.  During the pandemic lockdowns, interchange with INRD had dwindled, then began coming back.  Service was reestablished with the intention of interchanging with INRD on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays; however, if traffic is sufficient, LIRC will go to Indy on Tuesdays and/or Thursdays.  Conversely, if traffic is light on a Monday, Wednesday, or Friday, LIRC will skip a trip to Indy on that day.    

The train usually arrives into the south side of Indianapolis in mid to late afternoon; however, Tuesday and Thursday trains may run closer to noon, suggesting that LIRC may schedule less switching of its own customers on those days.     

If the Z550 returns to Columbus early enough, the crew (or at least the power with another crew) may go switch Columbus-area customers on the remnant of the PRR branch to Madison.  

I'm not sure about LIRC's own service between Columbus and Jeffersonville, but I believe that the regular train runs overnight.  I have gotten the impression, however, that there may be a Sunday afternoon northbound out of Jeff.