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Eastern Railroad Discussion > NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021


Date: 10/22/21 04:32
NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: PlyWoody

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/local/rail-yard-worker-suffers-severe-arm-injury-in-train-mishap-kennedy-road-in-cheektowaga/71-57b6f47d-7c97-4666-8fd6-1a3bb1c3d438  

His first day working a railroad job after 5 weeks training and losses his arm.  The entire NS has more trains than people to move them and parked all over. Some Industry saying it taks 6 times longer to get their cars.  Attemps to temporary relocate engineers is not working.  Maybe this is not news, just SOP..



Date: 10/22/21 13:38
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: NPEDDIE

I am have empathy with him and his co-workers.

Ed Burns
Retired Clerk NP BN BNSF from Minneapolis.



Date: 10/22/21 14:40
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: oneblock

That's what happens when you only give them six weeks of training and turn them loose as a fully promoted conductor!



Date: 10/22/21 16:58
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: ERAD

PlyWoody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/local/rail-yard-
> worker-suffers-severe-arm-injury-in-train-mishap-k
> ennedy-road-in-cheektowaga/71-57b6f47d-7c97-4666-8
> fd6-1a3bb1c3d438  
>
> His first day working a railroad job after 5 weeks
> training and losses his arm.  The entire NS has
> more trains than people to move them and parked
> all over. Some Industry saying it taks 6 times
> longer to get their cars.  Attemps to temporary
> relocate engineers is not working.  Maybe this is
> not news, just SOP..

Yes SOP! With new Conductors and relocating Engineers to a territory they are not qualified on does not help safety.
With PSR every trainee is a Brakeman to a Conductor who doesn't know the job either.
 



Date: 10/23/21 10:04
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: Ondaora20

Very sad. When I started in this business in 1979 in the midwest, you weren't allowed to take the Conductor's exam until you had 2 years of experience as
a trainman/brakeman. And even with that, you had almost 5 weeks of classes with the various senior conductors, trainmasters' or roadforemen who had come
up through the ranks; not hired off the street. And after the test, the qualification trips began. It was serious training, because the business itself is serious.

The nonsense being perpetrated to day by the Class 1's is borderline criminal. There is no way on earth a person with no railroad knowledge or experience
(or a foamer who 'thinks' they know all about railroading) can learn to be a conductor in 5 weeks. It simply isn't possible. (And usually the foamers that get hired
are a lot more difficult to train as they 'know the business' already)

And I can attest to what being trained by a grizzled, seasoned senior conductor was all about. Yes, there were the occasional flunkies. But when you were able to
work with a man who knew his craft, you learned, by golly. It's well past due to return to that format. But today's 'modern' railroading would never go for that. Sad...
Pathetic, really.



Date: 10/23/21 10:51
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: railstiesballast

This is so sad, the lives of the whole family and may co-workers imacted with pain and suffering.
This should be a wake-up call to the "managers" who are in charge.
In my opinion the problem is that the corner office (senior managers) think it is all about management, management being about logical organization of work, record keeping, measuring everything for work input and results achieved and watching the numbers improve.
Those old head conductors, trainmasters, etc. knew better.  If they were good they were indeed organized, but they were so much more: they were leaders.
Leadership is a far more important thing that management.
Managers can (and do) hide behind computer screens and almost never interact with the people they expect to do the work.
Leaders  are out in all weather at all times standing with the workers when there is trouble or new people come on board.
Leaders don't need titles.  A track laborer, carman, or switchman can be a leader by guiding other employees and giving an example of good workmanship and work ethics.
Then there is an even more dangerous set of players, the side department experts who attempt to control what everyone does.  I'm thinking of the HR department, accounting department, etc. who want to run the organization for the convenience of their special needs.
Thanks for the report and for the discussion.

 



Date: 10/23/21 15:30
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: PlyWoody

There is little details in the news article to make any meaningful discussion but it said he was hit by his locomotive and spun around.  That makes me wonder about the training skill and experience the engineer may have had or not had.  I worked with and supervised a lot of crews and the engineers would not move without seeing where every man was located.  I changed my lantern bulb to a different color because I was the new, untested person of the crew.  I feel the radio usage has destroyed the knowledge for trainmen to know how to always be in sight of the engineer so he could always see where everyone was.  These new men using radio request movement but are out of sight of the engineer.  Radio should not be used except in very special cases.  All above comments are speculation and suggestions above and are generic and may not apply to this terrible injury.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/21 12:57 by PlyWoody.



Date: 10/23/21 16:21
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: oneblock

New conductors are taught to use their radios at all times and not to worry about being in the engineers sight. The weed weasels want to hide two blocks down the street and bust you over what was said on the radio.   



Date: 10/23/21 16:47
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: TAW

PlyWoody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  That
> makes me wonder about the training skill and
> experience the engineer may have had or not had. 

...or if there was an engineer. he could have been running the engine from a box.

TAW



Date: 10/24/21 07:51
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: oneblock

Sadly this is the fourth or fifth incident that has happened this summer with the same amount of training.



Date: 10/24/21 09:44
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: TAW

oneblock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sadly this is the fourth or fifth incident that
> has happened this summer with the same amount of
> training.

They value the folks who count the money much more than the ones who make the money.

TAW



Date: 10/24/21 16:20
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: jtwlunch

My first summer brakeman job on Santa Fe was one week of combination classroom, tour of the yard, throwing switches, getting on and off cars, setting hand brakes, and taking rules test.  Second week was working with daylight switch crew, a couple of second tricks and then night mainline local Wellington to Waynoka and back.  One mainline daylight round trip and time to mark up as a road brakeman.  In three months worked everything from Super C to peddling covered hoppers on branch lines diring harvest.  Even with that short amount of training the people we worked with were vigillent because their safety also depended on my safety.  That part should not have changed, I know the day to day challenges are now different and it really matters what company and people you work for now too.  Safety stats are much better than 1973 but any injury is one too many in this industry.  



Date: 10/24/21 18:26
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: Drknow

The unions also signed off on on the expedited process, Thence we started getting new guys “teaching” new guys.
And as an engineer it infuriates me that the FNG’s almost seem to refuse to use hand signs. They think I’m some dinosaur because I tell them it would do them well to learn them. Now I’ve given up because in PSR world nobody gives a S&@$ so neither do I. 🤷‍♂️

Posted from iPhone



Date: 10/24/21 19:57
Re: NS dreadful injury in Buffalo on Wed 10 20 2021
Author: TAW

jtwlunch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  Even
> with that short amount of training the people we
> worked with were vigillent because their safety
> also depended on my safety.

Back then, you were part of a crew. Now, the crew is you. (...and we haven't established, that I have seen, whether there was an engineer or he or the other guy were running the engine with a box)

TAW



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