Eastern Railroad Discussion > Interesting NS scanner talk...

A Norfolk Southern manifest freight is being configured at Roanoke with one DPU-configured train picking up a block that is also DPU-configured, producing an outbound consist with mid-train and end of train DPUs, which in my live cam observations across the NS, is a rare configuration (even though CP and other RRs do so regularly). Apparently this may become a more common practice at NS.

Update: after an hour or so fiddling and diddling (as Johnny Most would say), given one of the DPU engines attached to the rear of the pick-up was marked up as having traction motor issues, the addition of the pick-up would make the outbound train over tonnage. So the mid-train / rear of train DPU config is not going to happen - never mind!

Given I'm just a railfan, I'm in no position to be judgemental but it seems to me that all this could have been known before this lab experiment/educational experience for the crew started. And couldn't the defective DPU engine have been swapped out by Schafers Crossing engine facility? 
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/21 04:46 by JPB.

JPB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it seems to me that all this could
> have been known before this lab
> experiment/educational experience for the crew
> started. And couldn't the defective DPU engine
> have been swapped out by Schafers Crossing engine
> facility?

On 12/17, they combined two 740 loaded coal trains in to one NSane train at Roanoke to go to Catawba, NC & it was a 2x3x2 DP configuration.  30,000 tons, 12,200 feet.  The crew didn't make it all the way (less than 200 miles) & the train was split again at the abandonded yard at Linwood, NC. 

With the latest attempt, you're right.  For a company that likes to think they are so hip, and on the bleeding edge of technology, they often can't execute on the daily basics.  They have reports, and trends, and help desk tickets, and predictive analytics, and real time monitoring, and alerts, and remote diagnotics.... .....and don't forget to let everyone know:  MOC, the dispatcher, the Road Foreman, the shop, the trainmaster....  Yet often things like that are a complete surprise. 
The last [engine] hostler at Roanoke retired a few years ago, so there's not really anyone to make the engine swaps or moves they used to do.  These days, they just work the road crews making engine moves or pile on engine swapping to the "yard jobs" /local crews.  They could have a roustabout crew to do engine stuff & rescue trains or whatever, but they aren't really concerned about any contingencies & likely don't have the people anyway.
 

That's Railroading 101:  Things that are known aren't known by anybody.. least of all those who should/need to know.

-Tom



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/21 07:56 by zchcsse.

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On 12/17, they combined two 740 loaded coal trains
> in to one NSane train at Roanoke to go to Catawba,
> NC & it was a 2x3x2 DP configuration.  30,000
> tons, 12,200 feet.  The crew didn't make it all
> the way (less than 200 miles) & the train was
> split again at the abandonded yard at Linwood,
> NC. 
>
> With the latest attempt, you're right.  For a
> company that likes to think they are so hip, and
> on the bleeding edge of technology, they often
> can't execute on the daily basics.  They have
> reports, and trends, and help desk tickets, and
> predictive analytics, and real time monitoring,
> and alerts, and remote diagnotics.... .....and
> don't forget to let everyone know:  MOC, the
> dispatcher, the Road Foreman, the shop, the
> trainmaster....  Yet often things like that are a
> complete surprise. 

But like all Class One railroads these days, they are totally clueless and have NO common sense.

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JPB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > it seems to me that all this could
> > have been known before this lab
> > experiment/educational experience for the crew
> > started. And couldn't the defective DPU engine
> > have been swapped out by Schafers Crossing
> engine
> > facility?
>
> On 12/17, they combined two 740 loaded coal trains
> in to one NSane train at Roanoke to go to Catawba,
> NC & it was a 2x3x2 DP configuration.  30,000
> tons, 12,200 feet.  The crew didn't make it all
> the way (less than 200 miles) & the train was
> split again at the abandonded yard at Linwood,
> NC. 
>
> With the latest attempt, you're right.  For a
> company that likes to think they are so hip, and
> on the bleeding edge of technology, they often
> can't execute on the daily basics.  They have
> reports, and trends, and help desk tickets, and
> predictive analytics, and real time monitoring,
> and alerts, and remote diagnotics.... .....and
> don't forget to let everyone know:  MOC, the
> dispatcher, the Road Foreman, the shop, the
> trainmaster....  Yet often things like that are a
> complete surprise. 
> The last hostler at Roanoke retired a few years
> ago, so there's not really anyone to make the
> engine swaps or moves they used to do.  These
> days, they just work the road crews making engine
> moves or pile on engine swapping to the "yard
> jobs" /local crews.  They could have a roustabout
> crew to do engine stuff & rescue trains or
> whatever, but they aren't really concerned about
> any contingencies & likely don't have the people
> anyway.
>  

These are 100% true words… and not just NS. Believe me.

Posted from iPhone

Look at it as cheap entertainment for the railfan community. It's great!

twl

Posted from Android

globalethanol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look at it as cheap entertainment for the railfan
> community. It's great!
>
> twl
>
> Posted from Android

I can think of some better entertainment......

And a 30,000ton coal train not working out??!!??  Nonsense.....we must continue to strive for a new RECORD LOW Operating Ratio.....(eyeroll)....!! 

ns1000 Wrote:

> And a 30,000ton coal train not working out??!!?? 
> Nonsense.....we must continue to strive for a new
> RECORD LOW Operating Ratio.....(eyeroll)....!! 

Can't spell noNSeNSe without NS.  Just sayin'

They are training "railroader" out  of their system. No one starts as brakeman or MOW worker anymore to learn operations from the ground up.  It's all computer simulation, followed by pure guesswork.  So be it.

Grain goes over Tehachapi in a 4 X 3 X 2 config on an almost daily basis, it works if you do it right.

Out 

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grain goes over Tehachapi in a 4 X 3 X 2 config on
> an almost daily basis, it works if you do it
> right.
>
> Out 


Yes. And it also depends on axle loading per car or gross tons, length, and track profile. Then is the infrastructure capable of handling such a train.

How do they run on your territory? I have had a hell of a time with slack in hog backs on mine. How about you?

Posted from iPhone

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grain goes over Tehachapi in a 4 X 3 X 2 config on
> an almost daily basis, it works if you do it
> right.

That's fasctinating. 
Does that train also run 200 miles as two different trains, get combined in to one train for 200 miles (and use two crews), and get busted up again in to two trains for the last 60 miles?

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> callum_out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Grain goes over Tehachapi in a 4 X 3 X 2 config
> on
> > an almost daily basis, it works if you do it
> > right.
>
> That's fasctinating. 
> Does that train also run 200 miles as two
> different trains, get combined in to one train for
> 200 miles (and use two crews), and get busted up
> again in to two trains for the last 60 miles?

the last i heard, those w/b 4x3x2 grain trains destined for the san joaquin valley have the 3 mid train dpu's added at gallup, nm.

as far as i was concerned, they were a great train to catch on the needles sub to deal with the grades on goffs and ash hills..........

66

nsrlink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> callum_out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Grain goes over Tehachapi in a 4 X 3 X 2 config
> on
> > an almost daily basis, it works if you do it
> > right.
>
> That's fasctinating. 
> Does that train also run 200 miles as two
> different trains, get combined in to one train for
> 200 miles (and use two crews), and get busted up
> again in to two trains for the last 60 miles?

Yeah, the grain train over Tehachapi example is comparing apples to oranges when talking about operations here.  The grain trains on Tehachapi are a single, standard sized unit train, operating from point A to point B; what NS is doing is trying to make operations as cumbersome and chaotic as possible - ripe for huge delays to these trains, and other trains trying to operate in the area, (and seriously - how does this actually save money?!?!).  But hell(!), it sure looks damn good on paper when concocting up these crazy operating schemes - and I'm sure many "higher ups" at the glass palace in Atlanta use these elaborate and complex plans to justify their jobs.

But again to BNSF, they run double trains into Barstow on a saily basis with the road power for the rear train
acting as a mid dupe. But BNSF has special dpu software (LXA) to expedite the splitting of the train, As I said
doing it right makes the diofference.

Out 

NS has LXA software on some of their engines.

I'm not knocking the BNSF 4x3x2, probably works great for them for the most part.  And it is probably a long haul & makes some sense to run it for several hundred miles & multiple crew disticts that way.

What seems stoopid is DPing two train in to one to run one crew district, taking 2 crews to make it, hours of delay, & splitting the trains up again 200 miles away.
(what is being accomplished?  ...besides an engine swapping contest, DP setup practice & delays?)
What seems stoopid is how awesome one RR thinks they are on the bleeding edge of technology, (just read their press releases & listen to the investor calls,) but can't get the basics right.
What seems stoopid is having all this "technology" and not knowing an engine was crap until the crew showed up with the HOS clock ticking.

Agree, and I also hear frequently on the scanner that a crew has to get a consist update, like 94 miles out of initial terminal or crew change suddenly after numerous AEI readers
and PTC and OSS updates that "you have an extra car(s) in your train" and a number of times it has been a hazmat. All this technology and some of it integrated and dependent on other technology for State of the Art train ID, performance and safety and again some of the basics are unknowns.

This thread seems like it came straight out of Yard Limits forum with all the NSane talk lol. What happened to that forum anyway to shut down so abruptly ?