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Eastern Railroad Discussion > STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pan AmDate: 04/14/22 16:00 STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pan Am Author: Northern Date: 04/14/22 18:06 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: DevalDragon Excellent. Former Pan Am customers will notice an immediate improvement in service.
Date: 04/14/22 18:38 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: callum_out Especially for the GWI/B&E lines which have a performance bonus, wow money for better service, what a concept!
Out Date: 04/14/22 19:54 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: jgilmore Biggest question: What happens now to the stupid Pan Am moniker? Will they put it back to bed where it should've stayed?
JG Date: 04/14/22 20:46 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: wabash2800 And considering that CSX is a PSR railroad, that says a lot about how poor PanAm service is... Are we not sure CSX is looking at selling real estate?
Victor DevalDragon Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Excellent. Former Pan Am customers will notice an > immediate improvement in service. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/22 20:48 by wabash2800. Date: 04/14/22 20:47 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: MC6853 And with that, 40 years of shoddy indifferent railroading finally comes to an end... About time...
Date: 04/14/22 20:55 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: MC6853 wabash2800 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > And considering that CSX is a PSR railroad, that > says a lot about how poor PanAm service is... Are > we not sure CSX is looking at selling real > estate? > > Victor > > DevalDragon Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Excellent. Former Pan Am customers will notice > an > > immediate improvement in service. I still say their main motive behind all of this was to seal NS out of New England... They made the assumption that NS wouldn't fight back, and they were right; after years of Patriot Corridor investment, all NS wanted was B&A trackage rights... Some fight they put up... Now CSX will take the bits and pieces they want, then spin off the rest after 5-10 years, no doubt to shortline entities with paper barriers in place that prevent interchange with anyone but CSX... To clarify, NS didn't drop the ball here, but rather it seems they never had any intention to gain possession of it in the first place... At least not in recent times, anyway... Date: 04/14/22 21:22 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: pennsy3750 wabash2800 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Are we not sure CSX is looking at selling real estate? Doubtful, since the vast majority of the real estate holdings, particularly in the Boston area, were sold off long ago. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/22 21:22 by pennsy3750. Date: 04/14/22 21:24 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: pennsy3750 MC6853 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I still say their main motive behind all of this > was to seal NS out of New England... I highly doubt that. Its an awful lot of cash just to freeze out your rival, who still has access via Pan Am Southern anyway. CSX is after traffic to/from the Maritimes, maybe looking at it as a replacement for the coal traffic that they know will never recover to what it once was. Date: 04/14/22 21:33 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: MC6853 pennsy3750 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > MC6853 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I still say their main motive behind all of > this > > was to seal NS out of New England... > > I highly doubt that. Its an awful lot of cash > just to freeze out your rival, who still has > access via Pan Am Southern anyway. CSX is after > traffic to/from the Maritimes, maybe looking at it > as a replacement for the coal traffic that they > know will never recover to what it once was. That may end up being a benefit of this deal but I'm skeptical that it's the big reason... And also, Pan Am Southern goes away with this deal, becoming a supposedly neutral G&W property... Date: 04/14/22 22:04 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: callum_out Not supposedly but rather lawfully, there are tons of boilerplate forbidding the B&E from any interchange of
rate information with another GWI operation. They are also legally bound to neutral interchange, still GWI will kill with this operation, just watch. Out Date: 04/15/22 04:53 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: ShortlinesUSA callum_out Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > > still GWI > will kill with this operation, just watch. > > Out If that is truly the endgame, Genesee & Wyoming will not do the killing-- CSX will. It is clear that G&W is being installed as a lapdog for CSX, and that is who will ultimately call the shots on the Berkshire & Eastern. G&W doesn't do any killing; if they did, there would be a slew of shortlines they no longer operate. If you look at their portfolio, they could easily lop off the bottom 20 percent of their lower performing properties and probably be in better financial shape for doing so. I've been expecting them to do it for over a decade as some seriously weak performers were added to the portfolio through larger acquisitions, but they haven't, and G&W has attracted to new customers to some of those lines just like a company who's actually in the business to railroad should be doing. G&W may not be a fan favorite because they "ruin" shortlines by acquiring them and homogenizing the locomotives and paint scheme, but from a business standpoint, they have done a surprisingly good job at retaining existing traffic as well as attracting new industries to the lines they have acquired. Mike Derrick Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/22 05:59 by ShortlinesUSA. Date: 04/15/22 06:19 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: Northern MC6853 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > wabash2800 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > And considering that CSX is a PSR railroad, > that > > says a lot about how poor PanAm service is... > Are > > we not sure CSX is looking at selling real > > estate? > > > > Victor > > > > DevalDragon Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Excellent. Former Pan Am customers will > notice > > an > > > immediate improvement in service. > > I still say their main motive behind all of this > was to seal NS out of New England... They made the > assumption that NS wouldn't fight back, and they > were right; after years of Patriot Corridor > investment, all NS wanted was B&A trackage > rights... Some fight they put up... Now CSX will > take the bits and pieces they want, then spin off > the rest after 5-10 years, no doubt to shortline > entities with paper barriers in place that prevent > interchange with anyone but CSX... > > To clarify, NS didn't drop the ball here, but > rather it seems they never had any intention to > gain possession of it in the first place... At > least not in recent times, anyway... NS has had more than 10 years since the Pan Am Southern Joint Venture was approved by the STB to work a merger with Pan Am. NS could have completed all of the things that CSX plans to do with Pan Am that could have included expanding their J.B.Hunt container and auto traffic services into Ayer, extending that same container services east to at least to Rigby Yard in South Portland or even beyond to Waterville, worked to acquire a good chunk of the Maine forestry carload business away from CSX and competed with CN and CP for the Maritime freight from Irving in New Brunswick. A new expended freight service from Pan Am could have strengthened the old D&H east of Buffalo and north of Enola leveraging NS' network to the south and west could have been a revenue generator for NS. Now CSX will dominate the New England rail services as CSX does in Florida. A NS-Pan Am combination could have been a good deal for NS but they are focused on contracting their network with the PSR instead. Date: 04/15/22 07:58 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: realistic Looks like the 'Northern Route' or PAS with evenutally wither away after a few years into a true shortline Class II or III track.
Date: 04/15/22 08:17 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: Molino I hope they'll run a safer operation than the Crash Smash Xplode reputation they've had in parts of the South.
Date: 04/15/22 08:48 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: ShortlinesUSA Molino Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I hope they'll run a safer operation than the > Crash Smash Xplode reputation they've had in parts > of the South. > This reputation must be within the railfan community, because I certainly haven't heard it discussed over Mint Juleps at the Kentucky Derby or during a stroll in Charleston admiring the azaleas in spring... Date: 04/15/22 09:23 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: jgilmore ShortlinesUSA Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > This reputation must be within the railfan > community, because I certainly haven't heard it > discussed over Mint Juleps at the Kentucky Derby > or during a stroll in Charleston admiring the > azaleas in spring... Even if true, highly doubt the elites would talk about train wrecks at the Derby or Charleston or Atlanta or anywhere... JG Date: 04/15/22 09:57 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: Lackawanna484 Northern Wrote:
(SNIP) > > To clarify, NS didn't drop the ball here, but > > rather it seems they never had any intention to > > gain possession of it in the first place... At > > least not in recent times, anyway... > NS has had more than 10 years since the Pan Am > Southern Joint Venture was approved by the STB to > work a merger with Pan Am. NS could have > completed all of the things that CSX plans to do > with Pan Am that could have included expanding > their J.B.Hunt container and auto traffic services > into Ayer, extending that same container services > east to at least to Rigby Yard in South Portland > or even beyond to Waterville, worked to acquire a > good chunk of the Maine forestry carload business > away from CSX and competed with CN and CP for the > Maritime freight from Irving in New Brunswick. A > new expended freight service from Pan Am could > have strengthened the old D&H east of Buffalo and > north of Enola leveraging NS' network to the south > and west could have been a revenue generator for > NS. Now CSX will dominate the New England rail > services as CSX does in Florida. A NS-Pan Am > combination could have been a good deal for NS but > they are focused on contracting their network with > the PSR instead. The past ten or 15 years could be a textbook example of what happens with a rail duopoly. NS competes, sort of, with CSX for New England business. CSX competes, sort of, with CP and NS for business out of Montreal. Huge amounts of potential business with truckers flows down I-81 and I-87, away from the rails. Way back when New England was an industrial power house, the New York Central competed with the Pennsylvania and Erie working with NYNH&H, the Boston & Maine, etc Date: 04/15/22 11:15 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: wabash2800 And, my understanding is that unlike the old days, not much traffic originates in New England.
Victor Date: 04/15/22 12:10 Re: STB Approves CSX’s Revised Merger Application to Acquire Pa Author: callum_out Mr. Derrick is obviously not versed in western parlance, when I said G&W would "kill" the word connotes absolute success in
this part of the world, not put to death. Traffic increases on some of the GWIJ properties have been nothing short of astonishing. As to CSX telling them what to and how to, you better read the documents a bit closer, B&E is by document a "hands off" operation whose neutrality is a key point in the approval. Out |