Eastern Railroad Discussion > Speed Kills !!!

Your thoughts on putting a cap speed limit on hazmat trains,Run hazmat train at say 30mph so as to limit derailments..........

Like they do for trucks?

Posted from Android

I always thought it was the sudden stop that killed.  Looks like the old SP was decades ahead with their thinking with trains carrying hazmat stuff.  The FRA will have to consider SP's rule about "K" trains and their 30 MPH speed limit through certain areas. 

Limited them to the speed which is not likely to crack open the tank, IMO.

I think limiting the length of these trains will have much greater impact. If speed is limitted on any train with Hazmat cars, you are basically limiting speed on all of the other trains on that route. 

Cardinalrider13 Wrote:
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> I think limiting the length of these trains will
> have much greater impact. If speed is limitted on
> any train with Hazmat cars, you are basically
> limiting speed on all of the other trains on that
> route. 

Not necessarily.

I never had any issues with running hazmat/oil trains at 50mph but it was always painful in HTUA zones and running 35mph. I do get the safety aspect and running slower does reduce the potential puncture risk BUT it does also depend on the impact. Having more wild wheel detectors, HBD every 30-50 miles with some reporting, some silent, etc. 

The brakes on unit trains are awesome, can run them "like a sports car", makes it fun to operate. 

The fact remains that technology (hot box detectors)  failed to catch the bearing failure in progress.  This is the root cause.  Speed had nothing to do with that. EVERYONE needs to take a deep breath and exhale slowly.

Eng.Shadetree

Did the HBD fail to catch them, or was it NS had them programmed poorly and detectors did not notify trains?  

 

Regarding roller bearing operating temps. The last detector at the Ohio wreck showed the suspect bearing at 253 over ambient which was 10 degrees at that time so the bearing was at 263 degrees when the axle failed according to the NTSB. What are normal operating temps for roller bearings ? I know they all would not be the same but there must be a range of normal operating temps over the ambient temp. I'm not a RR employee but someone who has dealt with hazmat truck operations for almost my entire adut life. ---  Ken 

shadetree Wrote:
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>  Speed had nothing to do with that. EVERYONE needs to take a deep breath and exhale slowly.
> Eng.Shadetree

 This ^ ^

Roger Durfee
Akron, OH

scoobydoobydoo Wrote:
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> Your thoughts on putting a cap speed limit on
> hazmat trains,Run hazmat train at say 30mph so as
> to limit derailments..........

Huh?  Lowering the speed limit would reduce the number of derailments? 
On what do you base that conclusion?
/Ted

Well ive owned a machine shop for over 40 years and have done lots of repairs on equipment,Of bearing repairs 90% of them were heat related the other not being serviced properly,when the repair was put back in service the compaines reduced there operating speeds and also reduced bearing failures

No.  If the data announced by NTSB is correct, the first detector showed 38 above ambient, the second 103.  From my NON RR POV that gain should have caused a stop and inspect, but it did not.  
As to how to handle hazmat cars, step 1 unit trains of them only until freight trains.  Ultimately EDP braking for all freight cars seems right.  

Kemacprr Wrote:
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> Regarding roller bearing operating temps. The last
> detector at the Ohio wreck showed the suspect
> bearing at 253 over ambient which was 10 degrees
> at that time so the bearing was at 263 degrees
> when the axle failed according to the NTSB. What
> are normal operating temps for roller bearings ? I
> know they all would not be the same but there must
> be a range of normal operating temps over the
> ambient temp. I'm not a RR employee but someone
> who has dealt with hazmat truck operations for
> almost my entire adut life. ---  Ken 

My company dictates anything measuring over 200 degrees must be set out.

Posted from Android

NERF!!! Build everything out of Nerf! Wait that burns too....back to the drawing board.

Posted from Android

BrynMawr Wrote:
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> No.  If the data announced by NTSB is correct,
> the first detector showed 38 above ambient, the
> second 103.  From my NON RR POV that gain should
> have caused a stop and inspect, but it did
> not.  
> As to how to handle hazmat cars, step 1 unit
> trains of them only until freight trains. 
> Ultimately EDP braking for all freight cars seems
> right.  

I'm sorry but there absolutely no way that running every hazmat car in a unit train is practical. That just isn't going to work. There are just too many going to too many different destinations for that to even work out.

Posted from Android

Kemacprr Wrote:
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. What
> are normal operating temps for roller bearings ?

Well, when I hired out with Seaboard Coast Line I was issued two 219 degree Temptil sticks for use in field testing bearings after a roadside hotbox alarm.  Temptil sticks were slender crayons in a metal tube with a pocket clasp.  You marked the suspected bearings, and if the marks melted and ran - it was 219 degrees or higher and you set the affected equipment out.  When I went to the Southern, they told crewmen to spit on the suspected hot bearings.  If the spit sizzled furiously, then set the  affected equipment out.  I retired last year, and if SOU/NS changed the field test; I guess I missed it.  You see what the crewmen are dealing with - unless you get a critical alarm requiring a setout..  Is there a better way to find an upper threshold  on a crew inspection?  There is a another problem that needs addressing.  Today, places to set out a bad order car are few and far between.  The railroad I worked for removed most of the unused track switches - unless the former customer  paid a yearly maintenance fee.  Other remaining tracks capable of bad order setoffs degraded so bad they were pulled out of service.  I have seen instances where crews have "walked" bad order cars 10 miles in search of a setoff track.  In my opinion, we have not progressed over the years in some matters of this issue.

Tempil sticks have been standard equipment on the NS since I hired out in the early 2000's.

Posted from Android

ECP brakes won't prevent the stacking of freight cars at track speed at the point of the derailment.  


BrynMawr Wrote:
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> No.  If the data announced by NTSB is correct,
> the first detector showed 38 above ambient, the
> second 103.  From my NON RR POV that gain should
> have caused a stop and inspect, but it did
> not.  
> As to how to handle hazmat cars, step 1 unit
> trains of them only until freight trains. 
> Ultimately EDP braking for all freight cars seems
> right.