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Date: 02/03/24 13:07
Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: millerdc

From the USA Today network:
Article behind firewall so will summarize
GM CEO has been meeting with railroad CEOs on the backlog of deliveries of new autos.
About 70,000 new vehicles waiting for rail shipment
Railroads expected to bring 5,000 additional auto racks online this year
CEO of GM says as a result of automakers talks with railroads velocity has been reduced by two days
Rail moves nearly 75% of new vehicles purchased in the U.S. and carries 1.8 million carloads of motor vehicles and parts at any given time



Date: 02/03/24 13:30
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: coach

Good for the CEO's taking the bull by the horns.  Embarrassing for the RR's that become more incompetent each year as they toss aside experienced, knowledgeable employees.



Date: 02/03/24 13:42
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: ClubCar

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good for the CEO's taking the bull by the horns.
>  Embarrassing for the RR's that become more
> incompetent each year as they toss aside
> experienced, knowledgeable employees.
All true but they have to keep the Bean Counters Happy and those big Hedge Funds and others like them who only care about the dividends on the stock.
John in White Marsh, Maryland



Date: 02/03/24 14:03
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: TomG

Theres much more to it than this fluff article. GM has a big problem and shipping by rail isnt the problem. We orderd  850 vehicles from GM and they only committed to production of 317. They did revise it to 440 vehicles, but not nearly the contracted order. They have production issues and its not because the Railroads arnt hauling vehicles. But I guess it looks good in the papers.



Date: 02/03/24 14:20
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: Lackawanna484

GM has been focused on making more profit per car, and not flooding the market. That means no third shift in some places, limit overtime, etc.


Nothing wrong with that...

Posted from Android



Date: 02/03/24 15:29
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: MaryMcPherson

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing wrong with that...

Unles you're in the market for one.  But then, this is modern America where "the public be damned" is the nature of things.  GM Captial is waiting.  And salivating.

Yes, there is an element of sarcasm.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Date: 02/03/24 16:33
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: TomG

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GM has been focused on making more profit per car,
> and not flooding the market. That means no third
> shift in some places, limit overtime, etc.
>
>
> Nothing wrong with that...
>
> Posted from Android

Unless your one of the 400 that arnt going to get your emergency vehicle. 



Date: 02/03/24 16:37
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: MEKoch

there are at least 75 auto racks parked near me in Ohio for months.........

Anyone else have auto racks in storage??



Date: 02/03/24 16:53
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: jgilmore

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GM has been focused on making more profit per car,
> and not flooding the market. That means no third
> shift in some places, limit overtime, etc.
>
>
> Nothing wrong with that...

Yeah, maybe the railroads are in cahoots with the automakers to restrict supply, get some hush money to help keep dealer stock low and prices high. Rails let car companies blame them since they don't have any public image to maintain anyway... <g>

JG



Date: 02/03/24 17:00
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: train1275

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> there are at least 75 auto racks parked near me in
> Ohio for months.........
>
> Anyone else have auto racks in storage??

Yes, quite a few between Vermilion and Lorain, OH on the NKP. I think some were pulled from Clague Road out by Lakewood (west of Cleveland) area a few days ago.



Date: 02/03/24 17:00
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: Lackawanna484

jgilmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GM has been focused on making more profit per
> car,
> > and not flooding the market. That means no
> third
> > shift in some places, limit overtime, etc.
> >
> >
> > Nothing wrong with that...
>
> Yeah, maybe the railroads are in cahoots with the
> automakers to restrict supply, get some hush money
> to help keep dealer stock low and prices high.
> Rails let car companies blame them since they
> don't have any public image to maintain anyway...
>
>
> JG

I doubt anybody is in cahoots. Make cars that you can make a profit on.

Don't flood the market and trash your profit margin.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/03/24 17:42
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: jgilmore

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt anybody is in cahoots. Make cars that you
> can make a profit on.

Yeah, just a little humor my friend. Of course, the market is finite for overpriced autos and will react eventually. I guess right now car companies are like so many others, esp. the food makers and grocers, that are price gouging to make up for the pandemic, with government action increasingly threatened...

JG



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/24 17:44 by jgilmore.



Date: 02/03/24 19:44
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: farmer

Vehicle makers are getting closer to pricing themselves out of business.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 02/03/24 22:01
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: dan7366

MEKoch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> there are at least 75 auto racks parked near me in
> Ohio for months.........
>
> Anyone else have auto racks in storage??

Full train worth sitting on a siding near me in TN for a couple weeks now.  Came in as an 18E.

Dan



Date: 02/04/24 06:34
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: ironmtn

jgilmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > I doubt anybody is in cahoots. Make cars that you
> > can make a profit on.
>
> Yeah, just a little humor my friend. Of course,
> the market is finite for overpriced autos and will
> react eventually. I guess right now car companies
> are like so many others, esp. the food makers and
> grocers, that are price gouging to make up for the
> pandemic, with government action increasingly
> threatened...
>
> JG

Nobody should kid themselves. There were a lot of lessons learned by businesses during the pandemic. Some (many? most?) not good at all for the consumer. Particularly how to manage (manipulate?) the supply side of their business, and to keep prices high by restricting supply.

Since demand reduction happened across the board for everybody in their business sector, they all got to continue restricting supply and keeping prices high at  the same time. The pandemic set the pattern - all they had to do was "naturally" keep doing it. Post-pandemic, everybody can continue the same way. And the incentives to do so were strong - tighter cost control had come into effect too, and price support had become "naturally" strong too. There was no need to do some market manipulation to make it all happen. The pandemic did all the hard equalizing work (potentially otherwise illegal) work for everyone. All anyone had to do post-pandemic was "keep on keepin' on" to continue.

If everyone had not been hit equally, the one company that might have stepped out of line without an equalizing event like the pandemic would have been beaten up mercilessly by the competition. The competition would not even had to cut their prices very much. Nobody would dare to try such a thing without a such an event that did the deed - for everyone...at the same time.

Probably the only other way to have done it would have been to act like a cartel, with everybody conspiring to keep demand tight and prices high. Nobody could do that unless they wanted to risk going to jail. In the classic case that is often cited, diamond miner and marketer De Beers, which has long controlled diamond prices by almost totally controlling and restricting supply, finally had to admit to such illegal practices and pay a large fine to once again directly enter the US marketplace. For years before, their executives (they are based in London) could not enter the country without risking arrest. A 2004 New York Times story on that settlement, was not be behind a paywall for me: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/10/business/de-beers-agrees-to-guilty-plea-to-re-enter-the-us-market.html

The pandemic may not have created actual cartels that are able to keep prices high by restricting supply. But it was an event that naturally of its own accord created a business environment that allowed for that type of cartel-like behavior to occur with less market or legal risk. And sad to say, I see little prospect of it ending anytime soon. It's just too lucrative, unfortunately.

A virus did what generations of clever market manipulators could not accomplish without risk of serious jail time, at least in this country, with our fairly strong antitrust laws. I still shake my head in wonder.

MC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/24 06:35 by ironmtn.



Date: 02/04/24 06:41
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: train1275

Ref; Stored auto racks in the Lorain - Vermilion, OH area on ex NKP tracks of NS:

So a question about stored autoracks. I don't have specific reporting marks and numbers, but some of the cars are a TTX reporting(s) (TT?X) of some sort and others carry railroad reporting marks, I think one at least is UP. So as to some of these stored cars, are these leased to a specific auto company or are they leased to in this case NS ?

Just trying to figure how this works. If they were all TTX I'd think that NS would be storing them for TTX. If they are leased to an auto maker, then it would make sense seeing the diverse reprting marks and NS would be storing them until called for. Or if they are leased / controlled by NS, then how does that work with some cars having railroad reporting marls?
Do the railroads have an arrangement with TTX to manage the cars?

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/24 06:42 by train1275.



Date: 02/04/24 06:52
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: ironmtn

TTX in most cases owns the flatcars on which the racks are mounted. The racks are owned by the railroads. That's why you see a TTX logo on the flatcar, and a railroad logo on the rack mounted on the car. But there is one reporting mark used for tracking and billing, the TTX reporting mark on the flatcar. The rack mounted on the car is just kind of "along for the ride".

If the flatcar has a railroad reporting mark, as you are suggesting, then that's the mark used for tracking and car management.

And yes, TTX generally manages the fleet for all of those flats that have their reporting mark, which is the vast majority of the autorack cars in service.

MC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/24 06:56 by ironmtn.



Date: 02/04/24 07:15
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: engineerinvirginia

I need a new compact pick 'em up truck....nearest dealer has a lot full of them....none cheap but none over 45 large....one of them will be mine....and probably red...because why buy gray or silver when you can buy RED. 



Date: 02/04/24 09:32
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: howeld

After several years the former Army Depot east of Ft Wayne, IN (Home of NKP 765) is empty of GM trucks. There had been hundreds of trucks there for several years waiting for computer chips or for shipping.



Date: 02/04/24 12:49
Re: Railroad talks help clear backlog of new vehicles
Author: dcfbalcoS1

             Those 5000 auto racks can each make one trip and take care of the 70,000 so called back log of new autos. That is an average of 14 vehicles per auto rack, yes, might take a wee bit more trips but that is BS calculations to make it sound good from GM.
             NOBODy is going to take on 5000 new or pull 5000 unused auto racks out for 1.2 trips per car. The number don't work out. 5000 new auto racks to replace 5000 older ones in storage??? Still sucks as a business move.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/24 12:56 by dcfbalcoS1.



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