Eastern Railroad Discussion > CSX I031/I032 rerouting on I-95 instead of Norfolk Southern?

A friend who works for CSX tells me that for unknown reasons (to him), CSX has decided to truck all containers to/from North Bergen, NJ to Baltimore instead of rerouting I031-I032 over NS. This seems to be confirmed by origin/destination showing Curtis Bay Yard in Baltimore. I'm not real familiar with the on the ground situation there but I never thought of Curtis Bay as having the infrastructure to handle intermodal lifts. Anyone have further information on this?  Does the juice get unloaded there too?

I don't know how long this link will last, but semi-truck drivers are being recruited to take containers back and forth betwen North Bergen and Baltimore. https://newjersey.craigslist.org/trp/d/fairview-intermodal-owner-operator-1000/7823110658.html

Related rumor is that many contractors think CSX has seriously underestimated the time it will take to complete this project.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/25 08:34 by Soo715.

Typically when these detours are negotiated, they are only allowed a certain number of trains per day. And North Bergen to Baltimore is only couple hundred miles, give or take. They’ll get there a lot quicker by highway.

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Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/25 06:43 by ALCO630.

Even pulling tandem trailers, a driver will only move two boxes from North Bergen to Baltimore. With good equipment and time utilization, maybe they'll get a round trip daily.  With tolls, that's an expensive way to move two containers.  That leaves 200+ additional boxes to move...

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Even pulling tandem trailers, a driver will only
> move two boxes from North Bergen to Baltimore.
> With good equipment and time utilization, maybe
> they'll get a round trip daily.  With tolls,
> that's an expensive way to move two containers. 
> That leaves 200+ additional boxes to move...

31/32 are almost all 53' domestic boxes with some 53' reefers. Very few "pups" that can be handled in tandem on these trains anymore.

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Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Even pulling tandem trailers, a driver will only
> move two boxes from North Bergen to Baltimore.
> With good equipment and time utilization, maybe
> they'll get a round trip daily.  With tolls,
> that's an expensive way to move two containers. 
> That leaves 200+ additional boxes to move...

OK, I realize I might be a little out of touch with things because I’m not as over the road as I used to be, but when did they start allowing full-size doubles on the New Jersey Turnpike and I 95?

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Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

"Full size" meaning two 53-ft trailers?

Doug, they don't. That was pretty much what I was saying with my response but we may have been typing at the same time.

Tim, I can't recall ever seeing dual 53s out west, only twin 48s also known as "Turnpike doubles." Triple 28s are the most frequently seen long loads on the Interstates and turnpike in western states where they are allowed (such as Kansas).

Posted from Android

I was thinking of the shorter pup trailers.  If they aren't currently represented on these CSX moves, that makes the use of over the road drivers even more expensive to move them btw North Bergen and Baltimore

I've been following this closely since it was announced CSX had negotiated detours for the duration of the Howard Street Tunnel rebuild.
Interesting as Curtis Bay has no container facilities, just the coal, chemicals and some auto loading. Any Containers that CSX ships/receives are through Point Breeze, the port with substantial container handling or Dundalk via rubber tire transfer. As NS is permitting 2 trains a day over the detour these have so far been general merchandise and orange juice. This would pretty much prevent CSX from routing any container trains over the reroute. Containers can move by highway but the carload freight cannot. All of that makes sense.
CSX does have an option to move two trains a day on Amtrak's NE Corridor but the logistics may be too difficult to arrange, or Amtrak’s traditionally expensive ton/mile charges may be too expensive, so the rubber tire movement may be the easier way out.
My 2 Cents
Gonut
 

When I saw the agreement for movement over Amtrak I assumed that would be I031/32. Those are some of the highest priority trains on CSX. But like you say, what was an intent may have fallen through or possibly implemented at a future point if the rubber tire option from NYC to Baltimore proves unworkable.

My biggest concern in situations like these are shippers will be retrained to just live without the rail portion of intermodal. I don't know anyone who ships by rail who loves doing it.

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It would seem that it would be less expensive to run a shuttle train back and forth from NJ to Bayview yard, then a rubber tire transfer to Curtis Bay or Locust Point and then back on the rails south. 

timz Wrote:
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> "Full size" meaning two 53-ft trailers?

Yes, like they run out west or on the New York Thruway.

Posted from iPhone

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

Cole42 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would seem that it would be less expensive to
> run a shuttle train back and forth from NJ to
> Bayview yard, then a rubber tire transfer to
> Curtis Bay or Locust Point and then back on the
> rails south. 

Seems that way to me also.

Soo715 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A friend who works for CSX tells me that for
> unknown reasons (to him), CSX has decided to truck
> all containers to/from North Bergen, NJ to
> Baltimore instead of rerouting I031-I032 over NS.
> This seems to be confirmed by origin/destination
> showing Curtis Bay Yard in Baltimore. I'm not real
> familiar with the on the ground situation there
> but I never thought of Curtis Bay as having the
> infrastructure to handle intermodal lifts. Anyone
> have further information on this?  Does the juice
> get unloaded there too?
>
> I don't know how long this link will last, but
> semi-truck drivers are being recruited to take
> containers back and forth betwen North Bergen and
> Baltimore.
> https://newjersey.craigslist.org/trp/d/fairview-in
> termodal-owner-operator-1000/7823110658.html
>
> Related rumor is that many contractors think CSX
> has seriously underestimated the time it will take
> to complete this project.
>
>
> In reference to the first part, CSX has taken over half of the Stellantis
> vehicle facility on Childs street next to the southbound exit of I-895 tunnel in the last couple of weeks
> has rented 2 Taylor container handlers, plus brought one of their own,
> and has seen many UPS trailers in the last week
> plus around 20+ independent tractors and 2 portable offices.
> this is located nearby to the Curtis bay yard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/25 15:21 by Mike6640-2.

I agree on the time length of the project. I can see it taking until early 2026.

Posted from iPhone

Gonut1 Wrote:
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> As NS is permitting 2 trains
> a day over the detour these have so far been
> general merchandise and orange juice.

You are referring to M371/M372. There is also as needed empty hopper/coal train and extra as needed Cumberland to Philadelphia/vice versa manifest.

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farmer Wrote:
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> I agree on the time length of the project. I can
> see it taking until early 2026.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Yes.

Mr Hinrichs fielded several questions from securities analysts on the earnings call about his expectation the work will be done in 2025.  This matters because he has the increased revenue from the expanded traffic  flowing from early 2026, and most of the expense in 2025.  The analysts had been expecting the tunnel work and expenses to continue into 2026, with revenue beginning mid 2026.

Cole42 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would seem that it would be less expensive to
> run a shuttle train back and forth from NJ to
> Bayview yard, then a rubber tire transfer to
> Curtis Bay or Locust Point and then back on the
> rails south. 

Whereas Curtis Bay appears to have significant adjacent property with existing trackageon the north side of I-895 that lends itself to a temporary ramp, a quick look at Bayview on Google Earth makes it pretty apparent there is very little room there for such an operation.

Someone probably also did an analysis and figured that the extra time loading in NJ, short haul rail move, unloading in Baltimore only to shuttle across to Curtis Bay and load again is much less efficient than trucking the boxes as a shuttle from NJ. My guess (and its only a guess) is CSX is having their customers continue to drop/pick up boxes off at the ramp in New Jersey just as normal and has probably hired a fleet of contract drivers to shuttle them back and forth between Curtis Bay and NJ so this is essentially invisible to the customers. That way they would also have complete control over ingates and outgates at Curtis Bay.

I would assume that by originating and terminating at Curtis Bay they also can double stack everything for the remainder of the trip which offers an immediate benefit vs taking up a detour slot on NS and that would require a run around at Cherry Run.

They are running with doublestacks now but the actual container and trailer counts are down a lot, only 57 on this morning's I031 through Ashland.  I don't know if traffic has mostly diverted to NS or long haul highway.

Is that 57 platforms or containers? If platforms that wouldn't be a huge drop as 31/32 typically have 100-150 platforms single-stacked when I see those trains.

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