Model Railroading > WWII Hospital Cars

A couple of years ago I put together a WW2 era troop train to run at club open houses. I mainly used the Walther's kits. Now I am looking for a couple of Hospital Cars. I know they were basically converted passenger cars, and that Overland Brass has made one (anyone got $700 for each one?). Anyone know where I could find plans for one, decals or is this just a lost cause? I have no clue as if they were standardized or what. I am just starting on this project and I don't know when I will get it done.

Update: I did find one website. There was a detachment out of Camp Edwards Massachusetts. The 1114 Hospital Trains Detachment. It seems that each train averaged 15 cars. There was a kitchen in each car and each car had 38 berths. This was from a June 1945 newspaper article. Now I need photos and plans.

AJ

The recent Kalmbach special edition of Classic Trains, "Railroads and World War II" has an article on them with some pix. I believe Railroad Model Craftsman printed plans years ago but I have no idea when - I seem to recall seeing them. I have done a kitbash using ConCor smooth-side streamlined cars and 6-wheel trucks in N-scale.

Overland has never produced hospital cars, Coach Yard has and they were priced around $300 and are readily available. Decals are available.

http://www.thecoachyard.com/Pages/AllImages.lasso?RecId=541


1175 USA 89300-99 ACF LW Hospital unit -Army 305

ajy6b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Update: I did find one website. There was a
> detachment out of Camp Edwards Massachusetts. The
> 1114 Hospital Trains Detachment. It seems that
> each train averaged 15 cars. There was a kitchen
> in each car and each car had 38 berths. This was
> from a June 1945 newspaper article. Now I need
> photos and plans.
>
> AJ

Keep searching - you will find some stuff. Here's a couple more sites:

http://nn.railfan.net/pass/passroster/wardcar.htm

http://railwaysurgery.org/Army.htm

You might consider joining the passenger car group (PCL) on Yahoo:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PassengerCarList/

The group archives are full of discussions about hospital cars.

Also floor plans for some hospital cars can be found at the Newberry Pullman Collection:

http://doms.ilcso.uiuc.edu/cdm4/index_nby_pullman.php?CISOROOT=/nby_pullman

Resolution online is not sufficient to see details, but I think you can order copies at a reasonable price.

WWII hospital trains are an interesting topic, and even less is known about them than the Troop Trains. My hometown had a military General Hospital built during WWII, and my father's first cousin and her future husband worked there. I've talked with the cousin's husband some about his experiences. He would ride up the railroad line to meet the incoming hospital trains and do the paperwork on the new patients as the train was on its final lap.

WOW,

Thanks for this information. I am going to take my time and try to do this right. During some of my research I found out that Camp Edwards, in Massachusetts had Hospital detachment. There was an article and no pictures, the ships would come in at Falmouth, Massachusetts. The trains averaged 15 cars in length. Over the years, I have worked at or driven past three old WW2 era army hospitals after they were converted and closed down. I never gave a second thought that they were so close to a railroad mainline. This is interesting stuff.

I just got started on this when I saw that Overland Brass was planning on making a hospital car. They had a pre-production model at the Springfield, Massachusetts show. Retail price was going to be $700 for one car. I can't even afford one car let alone a whole train. Anyway, this is going to be a fun project over the next couple years. Thank you.

One of my favorite cars.... Army had both six axle heavyweight cars and lightweight 4 axle smoothside cars

HEAVYWEIGHT:
Coach Yard did do them for about $300 unpainted. Very nice.
Overland is doing them for $700 or more, with special versions having rooftop equipment.
Walthers did them as hospital cars and circus cars in the old wood with stamped metal sides. The instructions had pretty good drawings of them. Walthers still offers decals including the correct font and red crosses (last I looked)
Keep asking walthers to do them in plastic!!!!

Model RR Warehouse/Cannonball did a one-piece brass wrapper with a plastic core kit for less than $100 and may offer a rerun someday. (http://www.mrrwarehouse.com). They have been announcing a heavyweight mortuary car also, which apparently could also serve as a ward or ward/dressing car. Unfortunately this has been announced for several years and counting.

The prototpyes were later used by Ringling Bros circus train, Amtrak MoW, Alaska RR, Monon, Air Force (SAC Command Train and the ALCOP train), SP, ACL, NASA, Army/AEC, etc.

LIGHTWEIGHT:
As for the smoothside cars nothing is available. I tried to interest "O.K." (I think that was the name) to do some in their reasonably nice stamped metal line in discussion at the Timonium train show, but they never answered email, telephone or postal mail follow-up inquiries.

Prototypes were later used by Amtrak, NCDOT, US-DOT, GE (the Gemeni 90 test car), South Branch Valley, Chessie System, CSX, Conrail

Both are good cars for Walthers to do.......
Michael

Red_over_Yellow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Overland has never produced hospital cars, Coach
> Yard has and they were priced around $300 and are
> readily available. Decals are available.
>
> http://www.thecoachyard.com/Pages/AllImages.lasso?
> RecId=541
>
>
> 1175 USA 89300-99 ACF LW Hospital unit -Army
> 305



Then what are these?

http://www.overlandmodels.com/showroom.php?model_name_id=97&PHPSESSID=80e2e5fce3bfbb052fc6bbd697b402b2

Ym

here are some references for you
RMC Rolling Stock Plan book page 34 adn 44
Model Railroader August 1945
RMC July 1945

These are from the Trains.com index (a wonderful tool)

http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=S&cmdtext=hospital&MAG=ANY&output=3&sort=D

GNRRGUY

Anybody familiar with the HO Con-Cor/Rivarossi "US Army Hospital Train" set of 7 cars and 4-6-4 Hudson steam locomotive they did in the big red box? It was a limited edition collector set, No. #0002, and the matching army green passenger cars say "U.S. Army Medical Department" and "Surgical Unit" on the cars, with red cross emblems in white boxes on all four bottom corners and marked with a white-outline red cross on the black roofs. It appears to be a heavyweight combine, diner, four sleepers and a platform obs. Did this follow any prototype even loosely? The locomotive appears to be NYC-derived, a J-3a complete with high-speed hydrodynamic water scoop under the tender, and I have seen old National Geographics with NYC advertisements showing a cutaway view of a car that might be similar. I have this set, it has never been used, and I am just curious now that the subject has come up if anybody is familiar with these and if they were NYC-derived. --- --- - --- JLH

ajy6b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WOW,
>
> Thanks for this information. I am going to take
> my time and try to do this right...
> .... Anyway, this is
> going to be a fun project over the next couple
> years. Thank you.

You're welcome. If I was approaching the project, I'd do some Pullman conversions first and save the ACF unit cars for later. As had been pointed out, the ACF cars have a variety of other uses, so they should be an attractive candidate for a plastic model. You don't want to be another example of scratchbuilding/kitbashing a model, only for it to be produced after you are done. Anyhow, here is another data source - the Pullman car construction records from the Pullman Project website:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/index.htm

If you load the database and search it for "hospital", you should find most of the cars converted. The oddball cars were the one used, so a military hospital train would have a good bit of variety. One of possibilities that I noted for kitbash is the Walthers heavyweight parlor car. I believe it is a Plan 3416, which is what was used for quite a few of the hospital car conversions. Also the Walthers Pullman heavyweight observation is another possibility. I believe it is a Plan 3959D, but it should be close enough externally to the Plan 3959 and 3959A's that were converted. The air conditioning ducts on the roof might be a problem, because not all of the observations converted had been air conditioned.

I hope this helps. If you get on the passenger car list, you should be able to find some people that can advise you a lot better than me on the details of the cars. However I think a decent train is doable. Good luck, and keep us informed about your progress and choices.

highgreengraphics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody familiar with the HO Con-Cor/Rivarossi "US
> Army Hospital Train" set of 7 cars and 4-6-4
> Hudson steam locomotive they did in the big red
> box? It was a limited edition collector set, No.
> #0002, and the matching army green passenger cars
> say "U.S. Army Medical Department" and "Surgical
> Unit" on the cars, with red cross emblems in white
> boxes on all four bottom corners and marked with a
> white-outline red cross on the black roofs. It
> appears to be a heavyweight combine, diner, four
> sleepers and a platform obs. Did this follow any
> prototype even loosely? The locomotive appears to
> be NYC-derived, a J-3a complete with high-speed
> hydrodynamic water scoop under the tender, and I
> have seen old National Geographics with NYC
> advertisements showing a cutaway view of a car
> that might be similar. I have this set, it has
> never been used, and I am just curious now that
> the subject has come up if anybody is familiar
> with these and if they were NYC-derived. --- --- -
> --- JLH

Sounds like the whole thing is fantasy. Interestingly since the cars had side doors added for stretcher access, a whole train of combines, maybe with a baggage car for a field kitchen setup, would be closer to reality. Unmodified Pullman cars would not work because a stretcher could not be navigated around the jog created by the end car restrooms to get to another car where dressing or surgery was performed.

I think I will start with a couple of Pullmans first. I do have some AC ductwork and found some website history. Obviously some kit-bashing will be involved and some old Athearn baggage cars may have to sacrifice themselves. I am going to also do some more history and research. Even though the trains left the eastern seaports at an average length of 15, it seems that cars got dropped off along the way at various hospitals. It makes you wonder how they returned back to the seaport base.

A.J.

> ... I am going to also
> do some more history and research. Even though
> the trains left the eastern seaports at an average
> length of 15, it seems that cars got dropped off
> along the way at various hospitals. It makes you
> wonder how they returned back to the seaport
> base.
>
> A.J.

Definitely a lot to learn. Apparently the hospital cars could move in regular trains, too. Wayner's "Passenger Train Consists of the 1940s" has USA 89021 running in the Havana Special, first section of ACL train no. 76 northbound departing Rocky Mount, NC on October 17, 1943. Also USA 89012 and USA 89000 in the Pacific Limited, first section SP train no. 21 westbound departing Odgen, UT on December 31, 1944.

Here's an interesting webpage with a table of the number of patients passing through the various ports:

http://www.usmm.org/hospital.html

I would expect cars would be moved back to the ports after they had been used for any movement needed between hospitals. I was under the impression from my cousin's husband, that the whole train for the General Hospital that he worked at would be promptly unloaded and moved on its way. I am going to try to get clarification from him (or his wife who also worked there) as to how the patients were transferred to other hospitals.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> highgreengraphics Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anybody familiar with the HO Con-Cor/Rivarossi
> "US
> > Army Hospital Train" set of 7 cars and 4-6-4
> > Hudson steam locomotive they did in the big red
> > box? It was a limited edition collector set,
> No.
> > #0002, and the matching army green passenger
> cars
> > say "U.S. Army Medical Department" and
> "Surgical
> > Unit" on the cars, with red cross emblems in
> white
> > boxes on all four bottom corners and marked with
> a
> > white-outline red cross on the black roofs. It
> > appears to be a heavyweight combine, diner,
> four
> > sleepers and a platform obs. Did this follow
> any
> > prototype even loosely? The locomotive appears
> to
> > be NYC-derived, a J-3a complete with high-speed
> > hydrodynamic water scoop under the tender, and
> I
> > have seen old National Geographics with NYC
> > advertisements showing a cutaway view of a car
> > that might be similar. I have this set, it has
> > never been used, and I am just curious now that
> > the subject has come up if anybody is familiar
> > with these and if they were NYC-derived. --- ---
> -
> > --- JLH
>
> Sounds like the whole thing is fantasy.
> Interestingly since the cars had side doors added
> for stretcher access, a whole train of combines,
> maybe with a baggage car for a field kitchen
> setup, would be closer to reality. Unmodified
> Pullman cars would not work because a stretcher
> could not be navigated around the jog created by
> the end car restrooms to get to another car where
> dressing or surgery was performed.

Afraid it is a fantasy scheme train.

In moving hospital cars it was always commercial railroad locomotives pulling them. Obviously if being moved on a military base or property, an army engine would move them. The army had mostly switching locomotives and surely never a NYC streamlined steam engine.

The cars are the usual AHM/Rivarossi cars in army paint, none of which is correct, however they did a very good job in selecting colors and fonts for the scheme. The combine is closest to an actual hospital car.

I have seen one picture in a book of passenger train consists, of a heavyweight Pullman car in Army hospital car paint which was unmodified in appearance. Unfortunately the book was priced at $75 so I had to pass. I have no recollection of the number of the car or use.

A hospital car was pretty much self contained, with a kitchen at the front end, the receiving area at the doorway, bunks for 6 for officers or mental patients, storage or restroom, additional bunks for 30, two compartments with adjoining restroom for the medical staff, a shower, and car restroom and electrical lockers at the vestibule end.

There is a preserved and restored hospital car at the NC transport museum at Spencer NC, one at the Gold Coast RR museum in FLA and one in Texas. Others exist in unrestored condition. There is at least one ward-dressing car in unrestored condition in the midwest.

Michael

The J3a in the set is a NON streamlined 4-6-4, interesting how the nonstreamlined and the Dreyfuss streamlined versions seem to have the same class J3a assigned to them from all I read. - - JLH

Yardmaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Red_over_Yellow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Overland has never produced hospital cars,
> Coach
> > Yard has and they were priced around $300 and
> are
> > readily available. Decals are available.
> >
> >
> http://www.thecoachyard.com/Pages/AllImages.lasso?
>
> > RecId=541
> >
> >
> > 1175 USA 89300-99 ACF LW Hospital unit -Army
>
> > 305
>
>
>
> Then what are these?
>
> http://www.overlandmodels.com/showroom.php?model_n
> ame_id=97&PHPSESSID=80e2e5fce3bfbb052fc6bbd697b402
> b2
>
> Ym


says "future model" on the linked page. Not that they are in production or have been produced.

Here's the car that OMI never produced. ;-)

Pic was taken the night before the Amerherst Railway Society's BIG 2008 Railroad Hobby Show. Only time it's possible to get near the Overland booth with a tripod. ;-)

The box the car's on is labeled for one of OMI's SD70's

* JB *

Red_over_Yellow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Overland has never produced hospital cars, Coach
> Yard has and they were priced around $300 and are
> readily available. Decals are available.
>
> http://www.thecoachyard.com/Pages/AllImages.lasso?
> RecId=541
>
>
> 1175 USA 89300-99 ACF LW Hospital unit -Army
> 305

---

Here we go nit picking again. LOL! Kids.

YM

n6nvr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yardmaster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Red_over_Yellow Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Overland has never produced hospital cars,
> > Coach
> > > Yard has and they were priced around $300 and
> > are
> > > readily available. Decals are available.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.thecoachyard.com/Pages/AllImages.lasso?
>
> >
> > > RecId=541
> > >
> > >
> > > 1175 USA 89300-99 ACF LW Hospital unit
> -Army
> >
> > > 305
> >
> >
> >
> > Then what are these?
> >
> >
> http://www.overlandmodels.com/showroom.php?model_n
>
> >
> ame_id=97&PHPSESSID=80e2e5fce3bfbb052fc6bbd697b402
>
> > b2
> >
> > Ym
>
>
> says "future model" on the linked page. Not that
> they are in production or have been produced.

Thanks for the information, I have been following up some more. A definite kit-bash project. I got some combine doors by Grandt Line on order and I have checked out the different websites. The lightweight car in Texas is all olive drab. Overland has the roof of theirs in black. However, I tend to believe that the army had everything painted olive drab. The early ones may have been black and green, but I worked for the army as a civilian for 6 years and eventually everything turns up olive drab :)

AJ