Model Railroading > Ideas and advice needed on grades, helices, and bridges

Hello,

Ok, looking for A LOT of advice, maybe some pics, on grades, helices (helix-es), and bridges/viaducts.

1) How many units (Athearn SD70, SD40T-2, etc.) can I expect to need to haul a 30-car correctly-weighted train up a 2% grade?
2? 3?

1a) Can an Athearn Big Boy, Broadway T1 or new Rivarossi Allegheny handle that by themselves?

2) I can have a rise of 6" in 30 actual feet of HO track, correct? How long should I have from going from a flat, level track
to starting a grade, what is the easement length? I don't want to start a 2% from 0% at 1 joint of track. About 2 feet?

3) As far as train handling goes, I will have at least 3 30" radius curves in my rise, and a 30-car train will be the length of
the rise, do I have to be very concerned about stringlining? Even if I have the heavier cars at the head-end of the train,
a fully loaded doublestack, or a slightly overloaded coal hopper, and the lighter, empty ones at the rear?

4) Can I stack a helix over the top of this grade? Can the easyhelix ones fit a 30" curve?

A bit of fill-in is in order here now. This rising line will start midway on a long layout section along a wall, then come thru
a longitudinal connection, and around a peninsula to then shoot essentially straight to a wye connection with a double-track upper mainline, NOT on a whole other level than the lower mainline.

5) What height can I expect if using the Micro Engineering tall viaduct sets, with some height extensions? I want about a
400 to 500 HO scale feet long viaduct to be featured on the highline, which will be doubletrack except for the viaduct, which
will be single-track.

6) Has anyone used or built the 4' long Faller Single Arch bridge kit? I want to use it for the lower mainline, and site it in
front of the tall steel viaduct on the highline. Is the completed look a decided European look, or does it need to be
modified to look "North American"?

7) What is the total height of rise for one easyhelix kit?

More questions, now relating to benchwork and the effects on the grade as mentioned before. My layout is free-standing, and as
such, can't benefit from wall mounting. Now my question is this, can I use just the back edge of my layout (I had to use butt-
joint construction) to add supports for a small upper level, for mostly staging, with a max width of 1' for the upper framework? I need to keep the inside of the framework for the lower level free of supports for the possible upper level. I was thinking of
36" higher,on top of the current level for the new one. Can I cantilever out using 1x4 as the supports to the floor, or should I
use 2x4s? If I put the helix in to reach this, it will be in the center of the layout room, but I will lose the sight of seeing
trains come up the grade because they will have to be hidden in a tunnel under the helix, unless I put in viewports. This new possible level will then be a total of 6' off the floor, just above my eye level by about 2 inches.

Looking for MUCHO advice and ideas, and the benchwork books I have from Kalmbach are not too clear on the length to ease into the
start of a grade.

Many thanks,

B&Oblades

BandOblades Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello,
>
> Ok, looking for A LOT of advice, maybe some pics,
> on grades, helices (helix-es), and
> bridges/viaducts.
>
> 1) How many units (Athearn SD70, SD40T-2, etc.)
> can I expect to need to haul a 30-car
> correctly-weighted train up a 2% grade?
> 2? 3?

My old club had a 2.2% grade. Our general rule of thumb was for every two properly weighted cars, you needed one powered axle. So a six axle unit could pull 12 cars. So two SD40T-2's should be able to pull a 24 car train up a 2.2% grade.

>
> 1a) Can an Athearn Big Boy, Broadway T1 or
> new Rivarossi Allegheny handle that by
> themselves?

I have a Broadway Limited N&W Class A and I can pull about 20 to 24 34ft coal hoppers on that type of grade. However it has traction tires. My PCM Y6b can only do about 12, before it stalls; it does not have traction tires. So it depends, you will have to find out and see. My A is a 2-6-6-4 and the Y6b is a 2-8-8-2.
>
> 2) I can have a rise of 6" in 30 actual feet of
> HO track, correct? How long should I have from
> going from a flat, level track
> to starting a grade, what is the easement
> length? I don't want to start a 2% from 0% at 1
> joint of track. About 2 feet?

Can't help you there, try Woodland Scenic's risers, they may help.
>
> 3) As far as train handling goes, I will have at
> least 3 30" radius curves in my rise, and a 30-car
> train will be the length of
> the rise, do I have to be very concerned about
> stringlining? Even if I have the heavier cars at
> the head-end of the train,
> a fully loaded doublestack, or a slightly
> overloaded coal hopper, and the lighter, empty
> ones at the rear?

I would worry about string-lining. Then again it depends on the car length and speed. The club layout we used to have had min radius of 30 inch curves (maybe 28 in some places) and 2.2 percent grade. 30 cars was the maximum train length for safe train handling. Some members on occasion got away with more, but 30 was the cut off. When we used 30 it was at reduced speed. If you have DCC and your locos are on the same speed table, you may be able to get away with a mid-train or rear helper. Also use Kadee couplers, not the clones.
>
> 4) Can I stack a helix over the top of this
> grade? Can the easyhelix ones fit a 30" curve?
>
> A bit of fill-in is in order here now. This
> rising line will start midway on a long layout
> section along a wall, then come thru
> a longitudinal connection, and around a peninsula
> to then shoot essentially straight to a wye
> connection with a double-track upper mainline, NOT
> on a whole other level than the lower mainline.
>

Sorry, I can't help

> 5) What height can I expect if using the Micro
> Engineering tall viaduct sets, with some height
> extensions? I want about a
> 400 to 500 HO scale feet long viaduct to be
> featured on the highline, which will be
> doubletrack except for the viaduct, which
> will be single-track.

Sorry, I can't help
>
> 6) Has anyone used or built the 4' long Faller
> Single Arch bridge kit? I want to use it for the
> lower mainline, and site it in
> front of the tall steel viaduct on the
> highline. Is the completed look a decided
> European look, or does it need to be
> modified to look "North American"?

Sorry No help
>
> 7) What is the total height of rise for one
> easyhelix kit?
>
> More questions, now relating to benchwork and the
> effects on the grade as mentioned before. My
> layout is free-standing, and as
> such, can't benefit from wall mounting. Now my
> question is this, can I use just the back edge of
> my layout (I had to use butt-
> joint construction) to add supports for a small
> upper level, for mostly staging, with a max width
> of 1' for the upper framework? I need to keep the
> inside of the framework for the lower level free
> of supports for the possible upper level. I was
> thinking of
> 36" higher,on top of the current level for the new
> one. Can I cantilever out using 1x4 as the
> supports to the floor, or should I
> use 2x4s? If I put the helix in to reach this, it
> will be in the center of the layout room, but I
> will lose the sight of seeing
> trains come up the grade because they will have to
> be hidden in a tunnel under the helix, unless I
> put in viewports. This new possible level will
> then be a total of 6' off the floor, just above my
> eye level by about 2 inches.

Sorry No help.
>
> Looking for MUCHO advice and ideas, and the
> benchwork books I have from Kalmbach are not too
> clear on the length to ease into the
> start of a grade.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> B&Oblades


Good luck A.J.

We also use the "2 cars per powered axle" rule of thumb at the La Mesa Model Railroad Club. Our Tehachapi Pass layout has grades of 2 to 2.5 percent. We advocate weighting the cars with as low a center of gravity as possible (for example, filling the hoppers of covered hopper cars with lead) to minimize stringlining. You should be able to tip the car 30 degrees from the horizontal without its falling over. Most of our trains are in the 30 to 35-car range, and we typically run them with a three- or four-unit power consist. Two units usually aren't enough.

Winston Hill

I can pull a 25 car train on a 30" radius helix which is about 2% with two older HO Stewart F units (Kato Drives?) but it takes three Proto 2000 FA's. So, it depends on the locos. But the trains do slow down appreciably. My cars all have metal wheels and couplers and are weighted to NMRA standards (mostly 40 and 50 footers).

BandOblades Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2) I can have a rise of 6" in 30 actual feet of
> HO track, correct? How long should I have from
> going from a flat, level track
> to starting a grade, what is the easement
> length? I don't want to start a 2% from 0% at 1
> joint of track. About 2 feet?

You do need easements for vertical curves. I'm sure there's a formula out there, but 2-3 feet sounds about right to me. I use a 12" metal ruler along the rail on the railheads, at no point should the rail be more than 1/8" from the ruler (in other words on a transition at the bottom, the ends of the ruler should touch the rail and the center should be 1/8" or less from the rail, on transition at the top the ruler should touch rail at one end and be no more than 1/8" away at the other)

On my last layout I used 1/4" Luan plywood as a roadbed in most areas. This was very helpful in creating vertical curves, basically a built in "bent stick" method for vertical easements.