Model Railroading > A ballast question

I tried my luck using Matte Medium instead of white glue. I first soaked the ballast with 70% isopropyl alcohol, then applied a mix of 4 parts water to 1 part matte medium. After several weeks the ballast is kind of spongy, not firm. The old white glue/water mix always dryed firm. Is that normal with matte medium?

Actually the Woodland Scenic 'medium' is kind of spongy, but that I screened from river sand to a 'fine' mixture, is firm. Is Woodland Scenic ballast real rock or a composite? I wasn't real happy with the medium mixture (It seems too large for HO) and bought a jug of fine.

I have a 'bunch' of track to ballast with those two and cinders and want it done right the first time. Half is CStPM&O and half CMStP&P with a different mix for each.

Loren

A lot of folks use the next size down, for example, if you are modeling in HO use N scale ballast.

With matte medium, it doesnt always set firm so what I do first wet and spray matte medium and when im sure that the ballast wont move from liquids being applied i rewet the ballast and apply liberal amounts of 1:4 white glue to water mix with a large eye dropper. I dont need to be overly carefull since the matte medium should of made the ballast resist movement to liquids, so when i do apply the white glue mix I fill it up to the top of the rails and let it absorb in and also apply more to the slopes of the ballast.

Now the ballast is rock solid but only problem with that method is its a pain to dig out switches, if the ballast is loose it will move from the liquid being applied and its more expensive since I would use about a bottle of the woodland scenics on a 8ft by 1ft section of track (main, siding, and industry tracks)

Hello trakmous,

Woodland Scenics ballast contains tree nut byproducts. It is not rock, nor does not behave like it. It is super light, and will move out of place if you look at it wrong. You can get it to look decent, you just have to baby it. My suggestion is to go with Arizona Rock and Mineral or Highball ballast. Both are real rock and look great! You'll have to screen the Highball stuff as it contains some over-sized particles.

Alcohol or "wet-water" is just fine to use as a wetting agent. Use a spray bottle and spray out and let the wetting agent mist down on the ballast, especially if you are using WS ballast. And stick with the 50-50 white glue-water mix. This method has worked great over a long period time. No need in trying to invent some new method unless it is truly innovative and simply better than the old method. When applying this let it wick in from the sides of the ballast shoulder. Even if you are care when using a pipette or eye dropper, you can still displace the WS ballast when applying the glue mix from overhead.

trakmous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I tried my luck using Matte Medium instead of
> white glue. I first soaked the ballast with 70%
> isopropyl alcohol, then applied a mix of 4 parts
> water to 1 part matte medium. After several
> weeks the ballast is kind of spongy, not firm. The
> old white glue/water mix always dried firm. Is
> that normal with matte medium?
>
> Actually the Woodland Scenic 'medium' is kind of
> spongy, but that I screened from river sand to a
> 'fine' mixture, is firm. Is Woodland Scenic
> ballast real rock or a composite? I wasn't real
> happy with the medium mixture (It seems too large
> for HO) and bought a jug of fine.
>
> I have a 'bunch' of track to ballast with those
> two and cinders and want it done right the first
> time. Half is CStPM&O and half CMStP&P with a
> different mix for each.
>
> Loren

The white glue works and is cheap. Why use anything else.

Buying and using ballast depends on many things including your prototype. I have a 50X50 layout, 3 levels and it is completely ballasted. I would of loved to use Arizona real ballast but it would of cost me thousands of dollars. Woodland scenic's ballast worked and looked great and I was able to buy it by the case at a lot less money.(I used N and HO sizes) So what I did was airbrush the track with Polyscale Railroad brown. Then I laid out the ballast. Then I use a vacuum technique I developed to remove excess. Once I was satisfied, I would use an ex Windex bottle filled with water with a drop or 2 of liquid detergent. After wetting the ballast well, I poured on a 50/50 mixture of white glue to water. Why would you want to use Matte medium? White glue as reported dries clear and is rock hard and as I can attest, it holds up over years of abuse. Matte Medium is allot more expensive and does not hold up over the long term based on my experience. You can buy Elmers white glue by the gallon for $12.00 and that will last a long time.

Good luck.

Bruce

PS - Once I ballast and glue, I put a fan on that area so it dries fast and hard. Then I clean the paint off the top of the rails. You can certainly splurge on the better ballast when your cranking out free mo modules but when you have big jobs, it may be cost prohibitive.

I do not use Woodland's scenic ballast. I got mine from another company. I would have to dig up the bag to check. Anyway, I use the 93% Rubbing Alcohol. Why use more water when you don't need it. I then use Woodland Scenics Matte Medium, undiluted with an eyedropper. My ballast seems to stay in one place.

AJ

Hi Trakmous.

I've used matt medium a few times on my layout, along with the trust white glue method. From my experience I would say that the fault maybe watering down the matt medium. As this is typically not as thick as white glue, I would (and have done) use it straight (100% Matt Medium).

Try it on a small piece of track, and see what results you get.

Keep us posted.

Good luck.

Allister
New Zealand

I stick with a 50/50 mix of water and white glue . . . sometimes going 60/40 water to glue. I also use exclusively Color Canyon Materials ballast, made here in Phoenix. I've had excellent results with the "real rock" ballast as it doesn't 'float' like Woodland Scenics. It also comes washed to remove sand and dust or can be bought just sifted to the fineness you specify. Custom colors are also available. Once it's all down, I'll usually apply two coats of the water/glue mix. To prep the surface, I'll use a mix of about 75/25 water to 91% alcohol.

Jim

In my experience (or more specifically, a friend's) if you use too much white glue to water you'll get more noise.

He did that and his trains are really noisy as they run down the track.