Model Railroading > Atlas vs. Walthers corn syrup tank cars

I'm looking at picking up about a dozen corn syrup tank cars to model an ADM unit train that's built on my prototype, and it looks like I have a choice between the 17600g Atlas model and the 16000g Walthers car. Are both these cars accurate for modern corn syrup service? Would it be accurate to intermix them in a unit train, or have the smaller Walthers prototypes given way to the larger cars on which the Atlas models are based? How do the two models compare in detail fidelity and availability?

Thanks for your time,

Joe Atkinson

Well I have just about every one of the Atlas corn syrup tanks and I like them, All I did was put some Kadee #119 couplers on them and they are great. The cars are very detailed and everything is applied on the Atlas car, The Walthers cars are to light and dont have as much detail, plus you have to install and paint the grab irons that come with the cars. Also dont forget that Intermountain makes corn syrup cars to.

The Atlas and Intermountain Corn Syrup cars are much more detailed than the Walthers Cars, and would be the better buy IMHO.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

mgwsy1978 Wrote:
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> Well I have just about every one of the Atlas corn
> syrup tanks and I like them, All I did was put
> some Kadee #119 couplers on them and they are
> great. The cars are very detailed and everything
> is applied on the Atlas car, The Walthers cars are
> to light and dont have as much detail, plus you
> have to install and paint the grab irons that come
> with the cars. Also dont forget that Intermountain
> makes corn syrup cars to.


The Intermountain cars look great. They're too new for my "era," but if I were modelling this decade I'd buy as many as I could afford.

I'd love to see Atlas do more number runs for several of the major corn-syrup producers, particularly Staley, Cargill, and the ADM "sunflower" logo that was common 15 years ago.

Joe,

As 100-ton syrup cars tend to be in +/- 17,500-17,600 gallon capacity range, the Walthers car is a stand-in and dimensionally will be off a bit in diameter and/or length. It does have more or less the right "look" though.

Since you are looking for ADM owned or leased cars, I took look and couldn't find any Union Tank Car-built prototypes which is what the Walthers car represents. You might sneak in a plain UTLX car which were leased to specific companies - I can't say if ADM was one of them. Here are some, in this case leased to Corn Products / Casco:

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=41937
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=41941
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=41938

It's beyond my limits of "close enough", but the Atlas 14,000 gallon clay slurry could be used as a representation of an ACF-built syrup car, which ADM does operate:

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=21703
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=18277

In this case I believe the prototypes for the Atlas car are 2-3 feet longer, and have a smaller diameter, than ACF-built syrup cars.

Doug Stark

Doug Stark wrote:
> As 100-ton syrup cars tend to be in +/- 17,500-17,600 gallon capacity range, the Walthers
> car is a stand-in and dimensionally will be off a bit in diameter and/or length. It does have
> more or less the right "look" though.

Thanks Doug. So is the 19,000g car the Intermountain model is based on accurate for corn syrup service? If so, would it typically be intermixed with the 17,500-17,600g cars in service? To be honest, I tend to focus so much on my specific prototype that, before the opportunity to model these cars presented itself, I didn't even know they existed in HO. I had a vague memory of the Atlas cars, then learned about the Walthers model, but didn't know about the IM offering until I posted here.

> Since you are looking for ADM owned or leased cars, I took look and couldn't find any Union Tank
> Car-built prototypes which is what the Walthers car represents. You might sneak in a plain UTLX
> car which were leased to specific companies - I can't say if ADM was one of them.

I appreciate the links. ADM appears to use ADMX, DMIX, UELX, TILX, SYRX, and GATX-marked cars, so with your information and the earlier model comparisons, it looks like the Walthers model is out for me.

Thanks to everyone for your assistance.

Joe

Joe,

> So is the 19,000g car the Intermountain model is
> based on accurate for corn syrup service?

The Intermountain car, aside from crooked parts on most examples I've seen, is accurate for corn syrup/sweetener cars and some ASRX (Domino Sugar) liquid sugar cars. The increased size is the result of upping the allowable gross rail limit from 263,000 lbs to 286,000 lbs in the early 1990s. Cars built to the new limit are known as "286K GRL" and in the case of tank cars are typically +/-10% higher volume capacity than 263K cars. Per Tim Frederick, the first 19,600 gallon Trinity cars were built in April 1995.

> If so, would it typically be intermixed with the
> 17,500-17,600g cars in service?

In many cases yes in my observations. I don't know that a production plant would be set up for one size vs. the other, but I know that some distributors and end-users may be for one reason or another. One is clearance - the cars are the same length, but being larger diameter the 19,600 gallon cars are more restrictive Plate C vs Plate B for 17,600 gallon cars.

> I appreciate the links. ADM appears to use ADMX,
> DMIX, UELX, TILX, SYRX, and GATX-marked cars

I think that's accurate for a current list. Some of these are era-specific though - ADM picked up the DMIX and SYRX reporting marks when they absorbed Minnesota Corn Producers in 2002. MCP also had 17,600 gallon Trinity (i.e. Atlas model) cars with MNCX reporting marks for a time however that reporting mark is now inactive.

Microscale set MC-4033 suggests ADM leases/leased some UTLX cars:

http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MC-4033&Category_Code=ADM&Product_Count=1

I couldn't find any photos in a quick search though so I am not sure what era they appear(ed)in.

Doug

Doug Stark wrote:
> MCP also had 17,600 gallon Trinity (i.e. Atlas model) cars with MNCX reporting marks for a time
> however that reporting mark is now inactive.

I assume those MNCX cars were restenciled. Do you know what mark they now carry? I just picked up an Atlas model of one (http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/HOFreightCars/hotrinity/6237-2.jpg ), since the MCP-marked cars are commonly intermixed in these unit trains, and would like to re-stencil it.

> Microscale set MC-4033 suggests ADM leases/leased some UTLX cars:
>
> I couldn't find any photos in a quick search though so I am not sure what era they appear(ed)in.

I think that ADM sunflower logo is 20+ years old.

Joe

IAISfan Wrote:
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> I assume those MNCX cars were restenciled. Do you
> know what mark they now carry?

Not sure right now but I think I know where I can find out - I'll let you know what I find out. It looks like the MNCX marks were used from 1985 - 2000.


> I think that ADM sunflower logo is 20+ years old.

It's actually a cross-section of a corn cob :)

I think it appeared at least sometime in the 1970s but there are a few stragglers still out there. There's actually a fuzzy picture of a UTLX car with it if you click on 1970 in the timeline here:

http://www.admworld.com/euen/about/TimeLine_history.html

It hadn't occurred to me that it wasn't the corporate logo, but more branding for a product line. The timeline above indicates the molecule logo was in use from 1962 to 2001.

Doug

Joe,

Obviously these represent different cars so you if you want to represent the real deal, you should check out what there running in real life. If you want my opinion, the Atlas cars are the best in detail/paint/assembly, followed by the IM cars. The IM cars on the first couple of runs had finger prints embedded into the finish coat which I did not like and some parts sloppily installed with glue marks. I sent mine back. The Walthers cars are very light, too light and less detailed. That's it. Good luck.

Bruce

brfriedm Wrote:
> Obviously these represent different cars so you if you want to represent the real deal, you
> should check out what there running in real life.

I would if I could Bruce! :-) Fact is, these corn syrup moves on the prototype are all limited to eastern Iowa, coming down from Cedar Rapids to the IAIS, then heading east to the BNSF connection at Rock Island. However, I model/live in the west end of the state, so to generate more traffic and give myself more reasons to run the SD38-2s and new ES44ACs out here, I'm twisting reality a bit and having those syrup trains (along with unit ethanol and feed trains) come west to the BNSF connection at Council Bluffs instead.

Thanks for the tips on the various models. Atlas wins again.

Joe

brfriedm Wrote:
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> The Walthers cars are very light, too light and less detailed.

I don't think I have any of these specific cars, but if they're
constructed like some of their other very light tanks, the ends
pop off and you can slide it down the end rail (which is attached
to the end via an eye-bolt) and pop in some sticky back weights
that way. I did that with a couple of molten sulphur tanks.

csxt4617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brfriedm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Walthers cars are very light, too light and
> less detailed.
>
> I don't think I have any of these specific cars,
> but if they're
> constructed like some of their other very light
> tanks, the ends
> pop off and you can slide it down the end rail
> (which is attached
> to the end via an eye-bolt) and pop in some sticky
> back weights
> that way. I did that with a couple of molten
> sulphur tanks.


Did the same with my Walthers RTR Cargill Tank cars, bought a 'bulk' box of weights from local tire store, A LOT cheaper than buying A-Line's little packages!

BN_FAN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > I think that ADM sunflower logo is 20+ years
> old.
>
> It's actually a cross-section of a corn cob :)


Heh. I wouldn't be surprised if confusion over what that was supposed to be was part of the reason they dropped it.

Joe,

To follow up on those MNCX cars - they were delivered that way when built in 1984. Trinity was the owner/lessor and managed these cars, and sometime in the early 1990s put them in their lease fleet with TILX reporting marks. Not sure if they were patched or fully repainted. The MNCX cars are in the April 1991 ORER, and not in the April 1996 edition - those are the only two I have that span that time period.

It's also not a certainty that they remained in corn syrup service after they got the TILX reporting marks - Tim Frederick reported seeing one marked for caustic residue.

Doug


IAISfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume those MNCX cars were restenciled. Do you
> know what mark they now carry? I just picked up
> an Atlas model of one
> (http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/HOFreightCars/hotri
> nity/6237-2.jpg ), since the MCP-marked cars are
> commonly intermixed in these unit trains, and
> would like to re-stencil it.

There's 45 MNCX tank cars in the July 94 ORER, 1000-1044 series. I can't
give the gallons though, they don't list them (even though there's a column
for gallons). It only lists their weight capacity.

Thanks - those are the ones. So that means the MNCX cars went to TILX sometime between 7/94 and 4/96.

csxt4617 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's 45 MNCX tank cars in the July 94 ORER,
> 1000-1044 series. I can't
> give the gallons though, they don't list them
> (even though there's a column
> for gallons). It only lists their weight capacity.