Model Railroading > Athearn and Walthers

Any idea why Walthers does not include Athearn products in its model railraod catalog?

Athearn is owned by Horizon Hobbies, a wholesaler of hobby products. In other words a direct competitor of Walther's wholesale business. If Walthers handled Athearn they'd be subsidizing the competition.
Clarence

There was a time when I could order Athearn from Horizon, Walthers, Dimi, Great Planes, CAL Hobby, and some others. If someone wanted such and such boxcar in such and such roadname, it was easy to search and find it. Now, if Horizon is out, that's it. One disadvantage to today's set-up.

I remember when Athearn was still "Athearn" and they were available through Walthers...those were the days.

Fizzboy7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a time when I could order Athearn from
> Horizon, Walthers, Dimi, Great Planes, CAL Hobby,
> and some others. If someone wanted such and
> such boxcar in such and such roadname, it was easy
> to search and find it. Now, if Horizon is out,
> that's it. One disadvantage to today's set-up.

It's really not a result of Horizon specifically, it's the change in the way the market operates now. Horizon IS Athearn, for all practical purposes, since the own Athearn. Horizon's inventory reflects Athearn's. The difference is that Athearn now produces models based on advanced reservations, with a small overage. Athearn's (Horizon's) goal is that each production run gets shipped out the door to dealers almost as soon as it arrives. Gone are the days of Athearn and distributors keeping models in stock for months or even years. That's why you used to be able to search around and find things from various sources. Some dealers and manufacturers still make an effort to keep things in stock so customers can buy / order at their leisure, but Athearn's goal is to move models out the door and into customers' hands as quickly as possible. If anything is left over, they look at it as if they produced too many of that model.

Where I think the Horizon takeover hurts us is that many small dealers could no longer afford to carry Athearn. They used to just be able to order what they needed through Walthers or another distributor, but my understanding is that Horizon now has certain requirements that many smaller dealers can't meet.

Dave

conrailmike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember when Athearn was still "Athearn" and
> they were available through Walthers...those were
> the days.


I remember Varney and Globe before Atheran, those were really the days!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/10 04:58 by Hamler-Henry.

Hamler-Henry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> conrailmike Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I remember when Athearn was still "Athearn" and
> > they were available through Walthers...those
> were
> > the days.
>
>
> I remember Varney and Globe before Atheran, those
> were really the days!!!


So do I, and you can have those days. Open frame motors, brass wheels on brass track, horn hook couplers, and you could have any passenger car you wanted as long as it was a Budd shorty streamliner, or some crude hunk of milled wood.

I'll take a Genesis F3 over a Globe F3 any day, thank you very much.

- Arved

You know, I hadn't thought about it, but my local train shop, which is a train only shop, has had a much lower inventory of cars the last year, as well as engines and other goodies. Hadn't thought about the "new business plan" of the hobby having much affect on my hobby, but certainly I can realize now what model railroading today has become. I learned quickly when ExactRail came out with the ATSF grain cars, and I bought my first dozen. I waited a little bit and then discovered more cars were a little more difficult to find. So I started a three month quest of reading through the mags and scanning the internet and was able to to find enough more to complete my grain car fleet. I now have a total of 99 of them, not all were purchased at retail pricing, but it did take alot of hitting internet dealers, buying what they had left, and moving on to the next dealer. My Mastercard took a hit, my wife wasn't speaking to me, but I did get those cars.

Sure learned my lesson with the new economy and the new world powers.

Bob

Bob Miller
Kansas City, KS

99 cars. Very impressive. And some people say that live steam is expensive....

Arved Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hamler-Henry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > conrailmike Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I remember when Athearn was still "Athearn"
> and
> > > they were available through Walthers...those
> > were
> > > the days.
> >
> >
> > I remember Varney and Globe before Atheran,
> those
> > were really the days!!!
>
>
> So do I, and you can have those days. Open frame
> motors, brass wheels on brass track, horn hook
> couplers, and you could have any passenger car you
> wanted as long as it was a Budd shorty
> streamliner, or some crude hunk of milled wood.
>
> I'll take a Genesis F3 over a Globe F3 any day,
> thank you very much.
>
> - Arved


Brass wheels on brass track and a little extra weight in the shell= a good puller!

Hamler-Henry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arved Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Hamler-Henry Wrote:
> > -------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > I remember Varney and Globe before Atheran,
> > those
> > > were really the days!!!
> >
> >
> > So do I, and you can have those days. Open
> frame
> > motors, brass wheels on brass track, horn hook
> > couplers, and you could have any passenger car
> you
> > wanted as long as it was a Budd shorty
> > streamliner, or some crude hunk of milled wood.
> >
> > I'll take a Genesis F3 over a Globe F3 any day,
> > thank you very much.
> >
> > - Arved
>
>
> Brass wheels on brass track and a little extra
> weight in the shell= a good puller!

And the surface of your code 100 brass track will oxidize to an impenetrable non-conductive patina just by looking at it. Those were the days, I tell ya! <G>

Cheers,
Harry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/10 13:53 by tracktime.

T have may have more to do with a lack of cash flow.

atsfmodeler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know, I hadn't thought about it, but my local
> train shop, which is a train only shop, has had a
> much lower inventory of cars the last year, as
> well as engines and other goodies.

I hate to sound like an old guy (which I am!), but we've never had it so good!

drolsen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fizzboy7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There was a time when I could order Athearn
> from
> > Horizon, Walthers, Dimi, Great Planes, CAL
> Hobby,
> > and some others. If someone wanted such and
> > such boxcar in such and such roadname, it was
> easy
> > to search and find it. Now, if Horizon is
> out,
> > that's it. One disadvantage to today's
> set-up.
>
> It's really not a result of Horizon specifically,
> it's the change in the way the market operates
> now. Horizon IS Athearn, for all practical
> purposes, since the own Athearn. Horizon's
> inventory reflects Athearn's. The difference is
> that Athearn now produces models based on advanced
> reservations, with a small overage. Athearn's
> (Horizon's) goal is that each production run gets
> shipped out the door to dealers almost as soon as
> it arrives. Gone are the days of Athearn and
> distributors keeping models in stock for months or
> even years. That's why you used to be able to
> search around and find things from various
> sources. Some dealers and manufacturers still make
> an effort to keep things in stock so customers can
> buy / order at their leisure, but Athearn's goal
> is to move models out the door and into customers'
> hands as quickly as possible. If anything is left
> over, they look at it as if they produced too many
> of that model.
>
> Where I think the Horizon takeover hurts us is
> that many small dealers could no longer afford to
> carry Athearn. They used to just be able to order
> what they needed through Walthers or another
> distributor, but my understanding is that Horizon
> now has certain requirements that many smaller
> dealers can't meet.
>
> Dave


All true. But the bottom line is-and my point was- it's harder to find products after the initial release. With multiple distributors carrying the same thing, the odds were good you could find something months or years after.
To reitterate your point, I strongly feel the sole reason Athearn/Horizon produces and markets the way they do is to make maximum profit. That is, no overproduction or leftovers. The current method is the one that works best for them and brings in the most money. Having sold Athearn for 20 years, we've gone from stocking the whole line and selling to people picking through the shelves, to now reserving special order items and calling the customer when the new stuff arrives. There's a big wave of sales right in the beginning, then next to no movement until the next new release arrives. In other words, big peaks and valleys and no use in having much of an inventory anymore.

As Dave Hussey taught me 15+ years ago, "better get them before the hoarders."

- Arved

Fizzboy7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> drolsen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fizzboy7 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > There was a time when I could order Athearn
> > from
> > > Horizon, Walthers, Dimi, Great Planes, CAL
> > Hobby,
> > > and some others. If someone wanted such
> and
> > > such boxcar in such and such roadname, it was
> > easy
> > > to search and find it. Now, if Horizon is
> > out,
> > > that's it. One disadvantage to today's
> > set-up.
> >
> > It's really not a result of Horizon
> specifically,
> > it's the change in the way the market operates
> > now. Horizon IS Athearn, for all practical
> > purposes, since the own Athearn. Horizon's
> > inventory reflects Athearn's. The difference is
> > that Athearn now produces models based on
> advanced
> > reservations, with a small overage. Athearn's
> > (Horizon's) goal is that each production run
> gets
> > shipped out the door to dealers almost as soon
> as
> > it arrives. Gone are the days of Athearn and
> > distributors keeping models in stock for months
> or
> > even years. That's why you used to be able to
> > search around and find things from various
> > sources. Some dealers and manufacturers still
> make
> > an effort to keep things in stock so customers
> can
> > buy / order at their leisure, but Athearn's
> goal
> > is to move models out the door and into
> customers'
> > hands as quickly as possible. If anything is
> left
> > over, they look at it as if they produced too
> many
> > of that model.
> >
> > Where I think the Horizon takeover hurts us is
> > that many small dealers could no longer afford
> to
> > carry Athearn. They used to just be able to
> order
> > what they needed through Walthers or another
> > distributor, but my understanding is that
> Horizon
> > now has certain requirements that many smaller
> > dealers can't meet.
> >
> > Dave
>
>
> All true. But the bottom line is-and my point
> was- it's harder to find products after the
> initial release. With multiple distributors
> carrying the same thing, the odds were good you
> could find something months or years after.
> To reitterate your point, I strongly feel the sole
> reason Athearn/Horizon produces and markets the
> way they do is to make maximum profit. That is,
> no overproduction or leftovers. The current
> method is the one that works best for them and
> brings in the most money. Having sold Athearn
> for 20 years, we've gone from stocking the whole
> line and selling to people picking through the
> shelves, to now reserving special order items and
> calling the customer when the new stuff arrives.
> There's a big wave of sales right in the
> beginning, then next to no movement until the next
> new release arrives. In other words, big peaks
> and valleys and no use in having much of an
> inventory anymore.


You think that's why they discontinued the BB line? Less inventory hanging around? Couldn't make the profit that they wanted? I know the one LHS doesn't even fill up the Athearn shelves with the RTR stuff now, whereas when the BB line was still around most of the LHS had at least 2-3 shelves (maybe more) full of that stuff and you could find what you wanted without having to go to a few different stores.

It's in every aspect of the hobby now though. I have to go an hour away to get detail parts for diesels/rolling stock now...nobody carries the stuff like they used to. With all this RTR stuff we have now the dealers probably figure the same thing...why have the inventory?

conrailmike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fizzboy7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > drolsen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Fizzboy7 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > There was a time when I could order Athearn
> > > from
> > > > Horizon, Walthers, Dimi, Great Planes, CAL
> > > Hobby,
> > > > and some others. If someone wanted such
> > and
> > > > such boxcar in such and such roadname, it
> was
> > > easy
> > > > to search and find it. Now, if Horizon
> is
> > > out,
> > > > that's it. One disadvantage to today's
> > > set-up.
> > >
> > > It's really not a result of Horizon
> > specifically,
> > > it's the change in the way the market
> operates
> > > now. Horizon IS Athearn, for all practical
> > > purposes, since the own Athearn. Horizon's
> > > inventory reflects Athearn's. The difference
> is
> > > that Athearn now produces models based on
> > advanced
> > > reservations, with a small overage. Athearn's
> > > (Horizon's) goal is that each production run
> > gets
> > > shipped out the door to dealers almost as
> soon
> > as
> > > it arrives. Gone are the days of Athearn and
> > > distributors keeping models in stock for
> months
> > or
> > > even years. That's why you used to be able to
> > > search around and find things from various
> > > sources. Some dealers and manufacturers still
> > make
> > > an effort to keep things in stock so
> customers
> > can
> > > buy / order at their leisure, but Athearn's
> > goal
> > > is to move models out the door and into
> > customers'
> > > hands as quickly as possible. If anything is
> > left
> > > over, they look at it as if they produced too
> > many
> > > of that model.
> > >
> > > Where I think the Horizon takeover hurts us
> is
> > > that many small dealers could no longer
> afford
> > to
> > > carry Athearn. They used to just be able to
> > order
> > > what they needed through Walthers or another
> > > distributor, but my understanding is that
> > Horizon
> > > now has certain requirements that many
> smaller
> > > dealers can't meet.
> > >
> > > Dave
> >
> >
> > All true. But the bottom line is-and my point
> > was- it's harder to find products after the
> > initial release. With multiple distributors
> > carrying the same thing, the odds were good you
> > could find something months or years after.
> > To reitterate your point, I strongly feel the
> sole
> > reason Athearn/Horizon produces and markets the
> > way they do is to make maximum profit. That
> is,
> > no overproduction or leftovers. The current
> > method is the one that works best for them and
> > brings in the most money. Having sold Athearn
> > for 20 years, we've gone from stocking the
> whole
> > line and selling to people picking through the
> > shelves, to now reserving special order items
> and
> > calling the customer when the new stuff arrives.
>
> > There's a big wave of sales right in the
> > beginning, then next to no movement until the
> next
> > new release arrives. In other words, big
> peaks
> > and valleys and no use in having much of an
> > inventory anymore.
>
>
> You think that's why they discontinued the BB
> line? Less inventory hanging around? Couldn't make
> the profit that they wanted? I know the one LHS
> doesn't even fill up the Athearn shelves with the
> RTR stuff now, whereas when the BB line was still
> around most of the LHS had at least 2-3 shelves
> (maybe more) full of that stuff and you could find
> what you wanted without having to go to a few
> different stores.
>
> It's in every aspect of the hobby now though. I
> have to go an hour away to get detail parts for
> diesels/rolling stock now...nobody carries the
> stuff like they used to. With all this RTR stuff
> we have now the dealers probably figure the same
> thing...why have the inventory?


I think the BB line was cut because it wasn't selling enough to justify the production costs. When we last had them in stock, the RTR line handidly outsold the BB stuff. I can't speak for other stores though.

If that is the case, then dealers don't need big stores for inventory

It seemed that the BB line had become 'loss leaders' for the store, attract people in to the store just to checkout the stock. Maybe they'll buy a magazine or some crazy glue instead.

It may not be worthwhile clogging up the manufacturing pipeline with more BB kits though. I figured they stopped making them because most of them were so inaccurate and it may have reflected on the product line that they wanted to keep. Crank out some more SP PC&F box cars instead.

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It may not be worthwhile clogging up the
> manufacturing pipeline with more BB kits though. I
> figured they stopped making them because most of
> them were so inaccurate and it may have reflected
> on the product line that they wanted to keep.
> Crank out some more SP PC&F box cars instead.

Right. I hadn't bought any blue-box kits in years because they were so crude compared to the detail on the RtR stuff, and I've gotten rid of a lot of the blue-box cars I assembled when I was younger because they've been supplanted by better-looking cars produced more recently -- particularly the Intermountain PS grain hoppers, the prototypes for which a lot of the Athearn/Bev-Bel productions turned out to be inaccurate stand-ins (Bev-Bel did paint schemes for 4750 cu ft cars on the Athearn 4740 car).

The dealers that still have blue-box kits on their shelves largely can't get rid of them. They're great as cheap starter cars for beginning modelers, but horribly dated for most everyone else.