Model Railroading > "Live Steam" Basement Memories

Photo 1. Four SP locomotives wait in the Roundhouse area for their call to duty :
two Pacifics and two Mikados. Both Pacifics were numbered 2422.. One Mike was 3217 and the other Mike was 3254. The two Pacifics were Class P-4. Mike # 3217 was Class MK-4 and Mike # 3254 was Class MK-6. 2.5 inch gauge-- fired by denatured alcohol.
85-90 psi working pressure...

Photo 2. A double-headed freight train passes under the signal bridge, led by a "Mike" and assisted by a "Pacific". Stationary steam boiler plant in the background.

Photo 3. An SP "Mike" exits the tunnel and crosses over the double-track ballast deck trestle. It only ever carried a single track. Note the fire barrels near the railing and the semaphore signal.

A lot of kids were fortunate to have Marx, Lionel and American Flyer train sets in their lives. I was born into a railroad family that had "THIS" in the basement of my home in Oakland, Calif and which I enjoyed for the first 14 years of my life.
What would YOU have preferred to have ??? (grin)

All models and right-of-way structures scratch built by the late Victor Shattock.
Photos courtesy of Ken Shattock. (KRK)

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WOW! Great pictures and I am sure super memories! What happened to these great locos? Are they still operating somewhere? Sure would like to see them in action! Anyone still modeling 'live steam' out there? 2.5 gauge.

Thanksd,

Bob The Train Guy

Unbelievable! Thank you so much for sharing these with us.

- Arved

Photo #2 shows something I have not seen before in these photos. It suggests there were working block signals on the layout. That would have taken quite a few relays and excellent electrical skills in those pre-solid state circuit days.

Ken, did your grandfather have working signals as well as live steam?

bobthetrainguy Wrote:
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> WOW! Great pictures and I am sure super memories!
> What happened to these great locos? Are they still
> operating somewhere? Sure would like to see them
> in action! Anyone still modeling 'live steam' out
> there? 2.5 gauge.
>
> Thanksd,
>
> Bob The Train Guy

ALL of Vic's 25+ locos were SOLD except for THREE ... "Mike" MK-4 # 3217 was presented as a gift to the late Western Division Superintendent "A.S. McCann" ,,, Its whereabouts today are unknown. I have his 1" scale, 6-2-0 British 'Crampton' which I am considering selling.
I also have his original SP Pacific P-4 # 2422 which is the engine at far left in the Roundhouse photo. It was built in 1929. I always "dreamed" of owning every one of his engines someday. However, where the heck would I have put them ??

KRK

Westbound Wrote:
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> Photo #2 shows something I have not seen before in
> these photos. It suggests there were working block
> signals on the layout. That would have taken quite
> a few relays and excellent electrical skills in
> those pre-solid state circuit days.
>
> Ken, did your grandfather have working signals as
> well as live steam?

Gary-- If you knew 'Vic Shattock'-- you play for keeps and try to attain full realism. YES, he had working block signals--both light type as well as semaphores. His oldest son (my Uncle Ron) worked for Western Electric and was very knowledgable in electricity. Because of this, "Ron" designed and wired the block signal system as well as the motor and control circuit for operating the turntable.
When I came into the family, my grandfather taught me a LOT about mechanical things while Uncle Ron taught me about basic electricity to the point that today, I have over 45 years service in the telephone industry.
As I was growing up in that house with the basement railroad, I took over the maintenance of the signal system and improved upon it. Besides using small Western Electric relays, I also used full size US&S RR relays that were provided by my Aunt Irene (one of Ron's sisters) who worked for 35 years in the SP West Oakland Signal Office.
I also used a sheet of masonite and built a "model board" that was located near the Roundhouse area. It had the complete track diagram of the basement layout and various colored lamps for "block occupancy"... Lamps used were either flashlight type or telephone switchboard type from Western Electric. I guess I was ahead of most kids doing this work, unsupervised, as I was only about 11-12 years old. The lessons learned helped out considerably when I got involved with the old Eastbay Model Engineers Society O-scale layout in Emeryville, maintaining both overhead catenary wire and control circuits.
In later years, on the basement railroad, I used two 6-volt car batteries for the block signal power supply. (Remember "6-volt car batteries" ??) Got them from the old "SIGNAL" gas station next door to our house. Take care..

KRK

Quite amazing.. How were these locos controlled being live steam? Would you just set it up, and let them go... certainly at a "catchable" speed?

HI the only group of model steamers, ive been aware of is the Bagrr , bay area garden railroaders who have a number of backyard layouts in a number of cities around the bay area that during the year we get to go fire up our Gscale live steam engines . during the last couple of years a number of new members of different ages have started making steam engine out of kits, old engines, and brass parts, I think that becuse a lot of people don,t have much exsperience with tools and lathes that the older groups really had more a more enjoyable hobby back when ken was aronnd the old club in emeryville was operating, there were a number of fantastic hand made engines , i wonder where a lot of those engines are today haven,t seen them at any clubs,and no steamers. Ed T

6088 Wrote:
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> Quite amazing.. How were these locos controlled
> being live steam? Would you just set it up, and
> let them go... certainly at a "catchable" speed?

The throttle just barely stuck up out of a hole in the cab roof. You would set the approx speed and let it rip. Sometimes a jet of steam would make it go like a race car and you would be running your butt off around the basement trying to catch it.

Would have been great to have radio control, huh ?

KRK

groundhog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HI the only group of model steamers, ive been
> aware of is the Bagrr , bay area garden
> railroaders who have a number of backyard layouts
> in a number of cities around the bay area that
> during the year we get to go fire up our Gscale
> live steam engines . during the last couple of
> years a number of new members of different ages
> have started making steam engine out of kits, old
> engines, and brass parts, I think that becuse a
> lot of people don,t have much exsperience with
> tools and lathes that the older groups really had
> more a more enjoyable hobby back when ken was
> aronnd the old club in emeryville was operating,
> there were a number of fantastic hand made
> engines , i wonder where a lot of those engines
> are today haven,t seen them at any clubs,and no
> steamers. Ed T

The late Walter Brown of Oakland, CA was a machinist by trade and both an electric and live steam railroad hobbyist. He was one of the Founders of the Eastbay Model Engineers Society in Emeryville and he was also one of the original members of the "Golden Gate Live Steamers" that was Founded by my grandfather, Vic Shattock.
Walter built a 1/2" scale NYC 999 in brass, live steam. It was a beauty.
He also built a 1-inch scale 0-6-0 SP Switch engine. It still runs today, on occasion.
Walter also built an 0-scale, 1 1/4-inch gauge 4-6-4 Hudson and a 4-8-4 Northern in LIVE STEAM. They were also alcohol fired like Vic's engines.

Seeing one of these beauties pull some fifteen pullmans around the O-scale layout at EBMES in Emeryville, was something to behold. But it wasn't done that often, because some of the guys were scared of FIRE in the clubroom.

In the 1940's-- Walter Brown and Vic Shattock were co-chairmen of the NMRA's "Live Steam Standards Committee" ...

Here are some more rare photos of Vic's basement railroad...

Photo 1. Left to Right--
Walter Brown and GGLS Secretary Frank Dee check out passing trains on Vic Shattock's basement railroad..

Photo 2. Left to Right--
Tim Reardon, VP-GGLS and Ernie Haase, B&B Supervisor, SP Western Division,
inspect the piles and bents on the ballast-deck trestle on Vic Shattock's railroad.
A subject that "Ernie" would definitely be qualified to talk about.

Photo 3. Left to Right--
E.D. Moody, Asst General Mgr (SP); O.M.Barlow, SP West Division Roadmaster;
Victor T. Shattock, Water Service Foreman, SP West Division--Oakland...
Mr. Moody was a frequent visitor to both the basement as well as the club's outdoor
track in Redwood Regional Park.
Mr. Barlow arranged for the donation of 200 railroad ties and several 17 x 24 inch
bridge timbers to the GGLS club. Vic Shattock was the Founder of GGLS--
a longtime SP employee, a railroad Union officer (BMWE) and an NMRA committee
co-chairmen amongst other things...
(And a damn great Grandpa, too!)

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If there is enough show of interest, I'm looking into the possibility of a full scale, several part photo story about Vic Shattock and his basement railroad and the beginnings of the Golden Gate Live Steamers, like I did a year ago on the story of EBMES with my multi-part "Great Days at Eastbay" series.
Takes a lot of effort and a lot of typing. We'll see what the future brings !

Cheers.

KRK