Model Railroading > HO Scale Helix

Anyone running an HO Scale layout with a helix? I was thinking about using one on my layout but don't know anything about them. I am looking for information on what curve radius are used and grades? I am building my layout in a 22' x 18' room so putting a helix in a corner shouldn't be a problem. Any info would be appreciated.

I suggest purchasing Tony Koester's book on double deck layouts. It is a Kalmbach publication and I am sure you will find it at your LHS. Also, do a search on Helixes here in TO as this discussion has come up before.

Rick

I've built a few. In HO, I recommend nothing less than 30" radius. Depending on your construction technigue, that will work out in the 2% grade range. With diesels, you just about pull as long as a train as you want. With steam, you are very much limited. If built correctly, they can be the most reliable track on your layout. My big helix is in seperate room.

Some folks have helix phobia. They are not difficult to build at all. Once you get the bottom level up, the rest is easy.

The only issue I have with a helix is the hidden track but with some track plans and room sizes they are necessary if you want multi-level.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/10 11:47 by wabash2800.

Go to my website www.bnsfchillisub.com and look under local layouts. Check out Garth's Kansas City Terminal layout and see how we built the simpliest helix I've ever seen. Very minimal waste, no splice joints, easy to adjust, expandable and good grade. I would not do anything less than 30" radius either.

Bruce
BNSF Chillicothe Subdivision

I have looked at the website that Bruce mentioned above and recalled looking at it a while back. It is a very clever way of doing it and I would recommend doing it that way. Beware that you do need the precision of a good Drop Saw as was mentioned. Don't even think about doing it with a Mitre Box and Back Saw. I liked the assembly line process described and I would think it went up pretty quick.

For an alternative, here is a very good product too but it is not meant for those who are thin on cash. It will however, allow you to make a purchase that would give you a recoverable part of your layout should you ever have to tear down and move.

http://www.easyhelix.com/


Rick

I made mine with two layers of 1/4" plywood with the joints staggered and threaded rods for support and spacing. It does requires making a cardboard pattern to mark out the pices for cutting. The pieces in a circle (I made 8 per circle to get more pieces out of a 4x8) are cut out with a saber saw. I glued them together with carpenters glue. You can buy a really long 1/4" bit to drill down thru the levels for your rod holes. I used 1/4" nuts and washers with the 1/4 threaded rod. The width of temporary 2x4 blocks make about the right spacing btw levels.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/10 13:36 by wabash2800.

rschonfelder Wrote:
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> I suggest purchasing Tony Koester's book on double
> deck layouts. It is a Kalmbach publication and I
> am sure you will find it at your LHS. Also, do a
> search on Helixes here in TO as this discussion
> has come up before.
>
If you want to learn about helixes, the Koester book is not the place to do it. There's VERY LITTLE in that book about helixes, other than they're a solution to bring track from one level to the next. Thought that book would be a good resource about helixes, but was sadly disappointed. Now, if Tony had used a helix on his Nickel Plate layout, you can bet there's be two chapters about it. But since he didn't, he decided not to give the topic more than a few paragraphs.

There are companies out there that make kits, or ready made. Look at MR or RMC for their ads.

Koester's book is demonstrating and selling the idea of double deck Layouts, which often include Helixes. It's all part of the sale. I think Armstrong gets credit for the original idea, or at least early ideas including the triple deck and/or 'mushroom' ideas. Another gentleman is credited with actually building and ironing out some of the problems, I seem to remember it being credited to Andy Sperandeo but I'm not real clear about that story. Found this just now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Sperandeo

Tried the 1/4 inch overlapping plywood method with the threaded rods and didn't get a good feeling about it, lots of little places to screw up and just didn't recover from it. I'm happy using 32 and 34 inch radius with an over-all dimension of 72 inches. I'm thinking the wood spacer trick seems to be a good idea. I chose to not overlap the first level, so it spirals into the helix, making that one side more that 72 inches. This allows more scenery and less hidden run time, but that's my own way of doing things.

Since I don't get much time for hobby projects and I'm still very employed I would consider a purchased pre-built helix kit. But the helix still has to fit into a well designed layout or it will appear to be a problem. Kinda why I like the 500 lb gorilla in the train room analogy. There is interesting info and examples out there, including in the TO archives.

I checked out the Kansas City layout. Bet he had fun laying track after the helix was built. I've tried it both ways and its MUCH easier to do while building the helix.

Here is something to look thru.Go to the construction page then scroll down to building the helix.Mind you this is in Nscale but can be transformed into HO.

http://www.bcrdawsonsub.ca/

Dale Miller
Langley, BC

The N scale helix is beautiful.There are many ways to build one,but I suggest that you always make it double track.If you have the room it will improve operation.

Uncle Joe-Seffner,Fl.

If you build them yourself, you have more flexibility. In my big helix that is 4-1/2 turns, I have two addiitional lines. One is on top of the helix and another underneath it. The main helix is double track with three lines utilizing that roadbed.

Here's my Youtube pieces on helix construction. Mine is 27" radius, about 2.2% grade more or less, works great with my all-steam roster. First, the roadbed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdrXH--f41Y

And then, trackwork:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZzdID42q9M


Jeff Johnston
www.trainvideosandparts.com

Great video, Jeff!

- Arved

Jeff's youtube videos are great for how to make a good solid helix. If you get the bottom level nice and uniform in grade, it goes together really easy. Take your time on the bottom level, as that's the foundation for everything above it. Make sure it's both a uniform grade, and also level side to side (no superelevation to the plywood substructure). The plywood tends to try and twist a bit as you raise it up, so don't be shy with the glue and screws to hold it in place. I used 1/2" ply, but make sure it's a flat piece and not one with a curve to the 4x8. Attached is a picture of my in-progress helix. About 31" and 34" radii on the curves, which gives me a bit less than a 2% grade.

Just make sure to put all of the roadbed, track, and wiring in place as you build it up, as it will be a royal pain to try and put track in once you've covered things up with the next level.

Scott

---

AWESOME helix construction video Jeff - thanks for sharing with us. Nice to see a sturdy helix built with economic simplicity yet quality materials.

How many levels did that helix in the youtube video come out to be? I'm wondering about how longer/multiple level helixes on the taller side need a little more level block clearance (more than 3-3.5") if you have to run bus wire feeder sunder there on one or more intermediate levels.


Jeff_Johnston Wrote:
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> Here's my Youtube pieces on helix construction.
> Mine is 27" radius, about 2.2% grade more or less,
> works great with my all-steam roster. First, the
> roadbed:

milwrdfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
> Make sure it's both a uniform grade, and also
> level side to side (no superelevation to the
> plywood substructure). The plywood tends to try
> and twist a bit as you raise it up, so don't be
> shy with the glue and screws to hold it in place.


Good comments. There's something about the helix that causes the plywood to tilt inward. I'm certain it has to do with the grade and the apparent change in circumference but this isn't a math discussion board. A number of people have talked about placing a new layer on top of the previous layer, then screwing and gluing it, then lifting it to the correct spacing and finding it has twisted inward. Seems to me that assembling the new layer on top of the spacers would be the way to go. Whatever is going on also effects using a template on a flat surface, cutting the pieces and then assembling them on a grade.

I liked Jeff Johnson you tube.The only thing I question.I would not square off the ends of the rail.I prefer to have staggered joints
like the real railroads.

Uncle Joe

Yes, it is very, very important to have the track level across the rails. Or you'll have problems.