Model Railroading > 21 pin editorial, SUCCESS if you are interested

It is o2o5 in the morning and I am still awake trying to solve this decoder issue. This worry is unusual for me, yes I have a fine life.

So it seems the path of DCC has moved ahead but it advanced on one side of the Atlantic before the other side was ready. I am not laying blame or pointing fingers it is just an observation.

After some soul searching I have decided my model railroad experience is far more visual than aural. I like to follow trains as they move or even stand away and watch from a distance. I like the sweeping and flashing lights. Give me a horn and whistle and I am happy. I do not need 1o or more sound functions like some steam engine decoders have. I do not want to have to carry another 3x5 cheat sheet so I can hear the tank spout come down when I stop for water or remember to run the air compressor when doing an air test or reaching the bottom of the grade. Maybe I can record my sneeze and make that F25. I want to carry the switch list and maybe train orders in my head while on the layout.

What I am saying is I am not sure I will ever need much more than 9 pins on a decoder, maybe 12 pins max. I am also more comfortable if I know where the lights connect to the decoder instead of just finding partial labeling on the top of the mother board. Every locomotive should come packed with an instruction sheet identifying every connection point on the mother board since these are now specific to each manufacturer with limited standardization for even the NMRA 8 pin wires.

Some of you have been following my travails with my first locos with the 21 pin decoders. Nearly a month now and only one of the 5 units is road worthy and that is account someone programmed the decoder as a gift. I guess I can take all 5 units out for a spin since I do have headlights, motor control and individual addresses. Trying to add a full SP light package would be impossible at this point.

This is all account I wanted non sound DCC. Just a couple of months ago I would have opened these locomotives and inserted a 9 pin plug in decoder or swapped out the motherboard and had these fully functional in an hour or less. Here we are a month later and the locomotives are still limited.

So I give the 21 pin experiment about two more weeks of sliding around the learning curve then I give up. I will keep the decoders in the U25C units since one of them is fully functional now and there is hope for the other with the proper instructions. The C-636 units will have all the wires unsoldered and a drop in decoder will be installed in each. There will be no guessing as to which F button will control specific lights. I will be happy. The removed decoders will be set aside until my side of the Atlantic catches up with the other side and in the mean time I will use up my stock of plug in and drop in decoders and sleep better. I promise I will not start any more 21 pin threads until after the new year but you can follow my progress on the 3 or 4 threads I have running now.



Posted from Windows Phone OS 7



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/14 00:16 by fbe.

Have you considered moving to Proto 87 and Sargent couplers ...yet?

I am probably too much of a geezer for that. I have given some thought about wooden push trains.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

I have two layouts, one DC and one DCC. The latter was expensive, a gigantic pain to wire (and it's supposed to be so simple), and after much refinement, still continues to give me trouble.

The old DC layout operates flawlessly.

Whenever I encounter the term "learning curve," I run screaming from the room.

Art House
Gettysburg, Pa.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/14 08:04 by aehouse.

Sorry to say I've read SOME of your threads but can't recall one thing - isn't there a converter plug for 8-pin to 21-pin?

All,

An interesting read: http://www.free-mo.org/node/304

While I believe that the basics of DCC are mostly sound. I feel it is still way to complicated and expensive for many modelers. Chris points this out in a Free-mo environment and it is just as true for a stationary layout.

J.

Well, yes there these harness wired from 9-21. They seem to be out of stock everywhere for now. This still leaves the question, what output is that light attached to?

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am probably too much of a geezer for that. I
> have given some thought about wooden push trains.
>
> Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

My daughter gave me an old wooden Strombecker floor train for Christmas two years ago. It is exactly like the two Strombecker trains I played with back at ages 3 and 4. I was given my first Lionel train set the Christmas of 1946 when I was 5 years old.

She got it on eBay and I am very grateful for the gift. I have it in a display case in my living room right now. Yes, and I am an old geezer.


Larry W. Grant
olddude41
Dallas, Texas

---

---

---

You must have been down in the layout room working on DCC as I think I just heard a scream all the way to Montana.

I am disappointed to hear there are future layout issues yet to face for me. I know a couple of local folks who have built DCC layouts so I can call for help.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Pretty good rant there fbe. I pretty much agree. I want to turn the throttle, light the headlight, and honk a horn
Or whistle on occasion. That's all I need.

As far as DCC itself, for a small layout maybe it's not a big advantage but I had a rather large layout up until I moved
1.5 years ago and am currently building a 25'x25' modest size railroad and the wiring, while maybe a little less in quantity
than analog, is much simpler and during operations is where it really shines. No rotary switches, no blocks to control, no
reverse loop polarity issues. Just guys and gals running their trains.

My EasyDCC system is now 12 years old and has not given me any problems that I didn't cause myself.

I don't want, nor need, a 21 pin connector, and no extra functions, I don't need 30 horns or whistles to choose from, I don't need
A fireman making shovel sounds, coupler clank sounds, pre-set whistles when starting or backing. If I want to whistle or honk,
I'll push my own damn #2 button. Do any do the decoder manufacturers remember the KISS principle? That is what made the
concept successful in the first place.

All that said maybe I am in he minority and the rest of y'all want all the extra features.

Hey wait, does that make me a curmudgeon too?

Greetings,

The LOC 21 pin plug sounds like typical German over engineering for over engineering sake. Many years ago a friend on mine bought a brand new Mercedes Benz and was so proud of the single arm windshield wiper, there was a gear box with a motor in it that not only kept the wiper parallel to the side post but moved the blade up and down to keep it on the windshield. I looked at it and asked what was wrong with the system that my car had, two wiper arms on two pivots connected by one rod that had an arm that went to the motor, grand total seven parts if you count the motor. And I could get wiper blades at the local NAPA store fore five dollars. I was driving at the time my Plymouth Volre which I put over 200,000 miles on before the trany gave out but that is another story. Well that first winter water got into the gear box freezing every thing up, so when he turned on the wiper one cold and frosty morning it promptly stripped all of its little gears and so forth. He then could not drive the car for a week because the dealer did not have the parts, when they did get the parts it cost him $1,200.00 to get his car back, the new arm was $800.00, the new blade was $100.00 and $300.00 to instal it! This 21 pin plug is the same thing!

Andre

Reminds me of an old saying,

I don't blow the whistle,
I don't ring the bell,
but watch the durn thing come off the tracks
and see who catches hell...

I am beginning to like the 21 pin connector as a feature. My biggest problem is with the mother board it attaches to. I think a lot of this would go so much easier if the motherboard had 23 or more Clearly identified solder points around the edges and on the surface so the user had a key about how to connect some functions and how to begin the programming.

It seems the Lok Sound select decoders are more like the NMRA decoders with non Lok Sound controllers when programming but no one is spilling the beans about someone else's controller or decoders. If you own NCE the programming either works their way or it doesn't. The ESU manual tells you how to do it using the ESU programmer. I guess we have to bang it out here or join a couple of more user groups to share frustration and experiences.

I am confident it will settle down in time but this transition is a bear.

There may be one lone 21pin to 9 pin wire harness in at the hobby shop tomorrow out of the 6-8 which were ordered from Walthers. If it has my name on it I will report on how a Digitrax DH166P decoder function on my locomotives.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Andre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The LOC 21 pin plug sounds like typical German
> over engineering for over engineering sake.
> Andre


Yes it is. It was brought for or from Maerklin. And Roco of course was unwilling to take over a Maerklin evolution there must be a new standard - the plux 22.

My opinion is a decoder must do what i want and not i must do what a decoder can do. I am the boss and the decoder is the menial and not vice verse.

What i need is
left and right rail
left and right motor
front light
rear light
plus pole
this are 7 pins

sometimes 2 ditch lights
than i need 9 fins

sound not for daily use, except for show off, because there is no realistically sound. When passing a real train i hear the engines up to the 3rd car, then the cars appear noisier than the engines. On the model RR i hear the engines over the whole layout, that's noise not sound.

Erwin from Austria



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/14 00:25 by spandfecerwin.

Is curmudgeon more refined than a grump? Do we need more of either?

Does remembering one or more of your early HO locomotives with rubber band drives help the definition?

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

The pin connections for the standard 21 pin (MTX) plug as I understand them are;

1 Hall Sensor #1
2 Hall Sensor #2
3 Hall Sensor #3
4 Aux 4 F4
5 Train Bus Clock
6 Train Bus Data
7 Rear Headlight(Yellow)F0
8 Front Headlight(White)F0
9 Speaker 1
10 Speaker 2
11 Index - no connection
12 VCC
13 Aux 3 F3
14 Aux 2 (Purple) F2
15 Aux 1 (Green) F1
16 Light Common(Blue)
17 Motor 3rd phase
18 Motor - (Grey)
19 Motor + (Orange)
20 Ground
21 Track Left(Black)
22 Track Right(red)

http://www.opendcc.de/info/decoder/schnittstellen_e.html

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/14 18:43 by funnelfan.

I can see you raised your daughter well.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7

Ted,

Wow, thank you very much. That is more information than I have received so far. Tracing the solder pad to a specific pin may be impossible due to the paint on the motherboard circuit traces at least now I know what the default connections are supposed to be. I guess I will be up a bit late tonight pounding CV changes into the 21 pin decoders. You may have given the new format decoders a reprieve.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/14 23:33 by fbe.

Larry you made my day with sharing your pics of the wooden train set. My father had a Rock Island set and I was allowed to play with as a kid too. Dad passed away two years ago and I found it just last week at my mom's house. Great memories with it and now I know even more about it because of you. Thanks!!

To stay on topic. I haven't a clue when it comes to DCC. Lucky to have a few friends that are well versed, otherwise they would be expensive stuff sitting in a box....


olddude41 Wrote:


> My daughter gave me an old wooden Strombecker
> floor train for Christmas two years ago. It is
> exactly like the two Strombecker trains I played
> with back at ages 3 and 4. I was given my first
> Lionel train set the Christmas of 1946 when I was
> 5 years old.
>
> She got it on eBay and I am very grateful for the
> gift. I have it in a display case in my living
> room right now. Yes, and I am an old geezer.
>
>
> Larry W. Grant
> olddude41
> Dallas, Texas

Are there any downloadable Lok Pilot user manuals? I have the one for the Lok Sound manual where the F buttons are significantly different. It seems special lighting effects require programming three separate CV values for this to work unless I can just get lucky with Digitrax the way I did with long addressing.

EDIT:
The download of the Lok Pilot non sound decoder manual is the same as what comes with the decoder. It is only about 2-4 pages long. It is more direct in programming the needed CVs.

Thoughts, anyone?

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/14 07:05 by fbe.