Model Railroading > Athearn Genesis SD70M Flared

Got mine yesterday, an NS and a UP (4756)

Of course the handrails were badly warped on the NS, and one of the sander lines on the rear truck was somehow shoved under the fuel tank during assembly and broke off. Not to mention the wires are visible through the dynamic brake fan. I'll set the trio in the sun and see if the handrails come back to life. The SD70ACe I have has the worst of it, the front deck handrails are curved.

At $200 a pop and waiting this long, you'd expect a little better build quality. That said, they are gorgeous!

Anyone else get theirs yet?

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/15 08:38 by myjbh1989.

If the UPS made it to my local dealer (Lincoln, NE) then I'll be picking mine up this afternoon! Been looking forward to these.

myjbh1989 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got mine yesterday, an NS and a UP (4756)
>
> Of course the handrails were badly warped on the
> NS, and one of the sander lines on the rear truck
> was somehow shoved under the fuel tank during
> assembly and broke off. Not to mention the wires
> are visible through the dynamic brake fan. I'll
> set the trio in the sun and see if the handrails
> come back to life. The SD70ACe I have has the
> worst of it, the front deck handrails are curved.
>
> At $200 a pop and waiting this long, you'd expect
> a little better build quality. That said, they are
> gorgeous!
>
> Anyone else get theirs yet?
>
> John


Not me! I refuse to spend $200 on a unit and let alone, $400 on a pair to make the head end look good. There has got to be a better solution to the handrail issue. How about going back to metal with better looking (stamped) stanchions, with today's metal forging/stamping you would think there would be a way. You may have to install them yourself though....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/15 09:56 by EL-SD45-3632.

EL-SD45-3632 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Not me! I refuse to spend $200 on a unit and let
> alone, $400 on a pair to make the head end look
> good. There has got to be a better solution to the
> handrail issue. How about going back to metal with
> better looking (stamped) stanchions, with today's
> metal forging/stamping you would think there would
> be a way. You may have to install them yourself
> though....


Refuses to pay $200, demands metal stanchions/handrails? What planet are you from?


Mr. MRL - oh and, hows about some SD70M photos???

---

The Smokey Valley stantions seem to be more readily available so a retrofit option is out there. Kind of busts the budget but I'll bet there is a market on an auction site to sell the factory parts.

Posted from Windows Phone OS 7



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/15 14:12 by fbe.

myjbh1989 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got mine yesterday, an NS and a UP (4756)
>
> Of course the handrails were badly warped on the
> NS, and one of the sander lines on the rear truck
> was somehow shoved under the fuel tank during
> assembly and broke off. Not to mention the wires
> are visible through the dynamic brake fan. I'll
> set the trio in the sun and see if the handrails
> come back to life. The SD70ACe I have has the
> worst of it, the front deck handrails are curved.
>
> At $200 a pop and waiting this long, you'd expect
> a little better build quality. That said, they are
> gorgeous!
>
> Anyone else get theirs yet?
>
> John

Shame..... It will never change........I was going to order 4 of them, change mine. Give my daughter a bigger birthday party...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/15 12:57 by electromac.

I have built many of these in the past and they looked pretty good when i cold get a good clean casting, so when athearn announced they were doing them, i knew i was going to get a few, so even if they has a few issues to fix, its still better that building my own and i love to build them, but untill every casting is perfect i still have a lot of work to kitbash one, so i for one will touch up a 169.00 unit.

thats my 2 cents worth

jeff



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/15 16:15 by hotmetal-train.

The problem is if you return the locomotive they are already sold out at many places, so you might not get a replacement. Hopefully the problems are fixable for those that are having them.

I never demanded the metal hand rails only suggested an option to Fox the problem.

Posted from iPhone

Picked up my NS SD70M today and it looks and runs great. No problems. Go Athearn

If Athearn would do 2 things to their line, it would make them the perfect engine.

1. Better handrails. I have stated till I am blue in the face that if they just increased the size of the handrails by 15%, it would fix this issue and it would not be noticeable. You can detail and paint the perfect engine but it is always ruined by the broken and warped handrails. Folks see that right away. But there is this following of groupie modelers that just want to tell Athearn how much they love everything they do, regardless of flaws. Some are friends with the staff.

Now if I had the know-how, I would start a company and make 3rd party replacement handrails for all Athearn engines. You would sell them by the truckload! Any takers?

2. LED's. Have talked about this thousands of times.

For whatever reasons, Athearn refuses to address these issues even though the majority of its customer base wants these changes. Lazy they are.

Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/15 08:14 by brfriedm.

As requested, some pictures. Compression didn't do these justice. More coming.

---

---

---

Concerning the handrails, this may be an engineering mistake as well as a molding problem. I agree that from a durability standpoint, larger diameter handrails would be a great improvement. In most injection molding operations, there is a certain % shrinkage that occurs when the part is made. I don't think Athearn or their manufacturer is properly accounting for this, thus the handrails shrink and don't fit on the model properly. It's a very fine piece to try to mold. Back when Bachmann Spectrum models were the rage (Dash 8 Widecabs) the biggest issue with those was also the wavy handrails (they started out great, but got wavy and slanted towards the rear of the long hood).

Anyone with a technical interest and some free time can read about how to properly mold Delrin (same material as Celcon, different trade name). Pg 34 talks about post molding shrinkage.

http://www2.dupont.com/Plastics/en_US/assets/downloads/product/delrin/DELRIN_Mold_Guide_11_06.pdf

And yes, Athearn needs some LEDs!

Sean McCaffery

brfriedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Athearn would do 2 things to their line, it
> would make them the perfect engine.
>
> 1. Better handrails. I have stated till I am blue
> in the face that if they just increased the size
> of the handrails by 15%, it would fix this issue
> and it would not be noticeable. You can detail
> and paint the perfect engine but it is always
> ruined by the broken and warped handrails. Folks
> see that right away. But there is this following
> of groupie modelers that just want to tell Athearn
> how much they love everything they do, regardless
> of flaws. Some are friends with the staff.
>
> Now if I had the know-how, I would start a company
> and make 3rd party replacement handrails for all
> Athearn engines. You would sell them by the
> truckload! Any takers?
>
> 2. LED's. Have talked about this thousands of
> times.
>
> For whatever reasons, Athearn refuses to address
> these issues even though the majority of its
> customer bases wants these changes. Lazy they
> are.
>
> Bruce


Bruce, let me add #3 - METAL couplers, not those weak-springed McHenry's. I know Horizon bought McHenry and maybe they can still use them in their freight cars etc to reduce costs, but for a nice looking locomotive with DCC and sound that has a street price of $200 or more I would like the $3 couplers instead of the $0.50 couplers. I agree that it would be NICE if Athearn would address the handrails. I detest MTH as a company, but I admit they make some nice but sturdy handrails. Oddly enough I can live with bulbs if they would last longer. To my old eyes the lights I see coming at me down the track look more like Athearn bulbs than anybody's LEDs.

Gary Binder
Waverly, NE

Hello Gary,

So I hear you but in my opinion, you have to pick your battles. For a low cost, I can put my choice of couplers on the Athearn engine but I can't fix or change the handrails. As for the bulbs, I certainly could live with them but they do not last and many of the bulbs are very dim and not even prototypical brightness. I can change out the bulbs for the headlights quite easily but it's always the same scenario for me, a ditch light goes. Ever change a bulb out on a ditch light? I have have and it's painful. So when a ditchlight goes, the whole engine gets new LED's as it just abit more work to LED it then to change out one ditchlight.

Like I said, Athearn folks are not Model Railroaders who operate which is why they just do not care even though the customer base wants change.

Bruce


binder001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brfriedm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If Athearn would do 2 things to their line, it
> > would make them the perfect engine.
> >
> > 1. Better handrails. I have stated till I am
> blue
> > in the face that if they just increased the
> size
> > of the handrails by 15%, it would fix this
> issue
> > and it would not be noticeable. You can detail
> > and paint the perfect engine but it is always
> > ruined by the broken and warped handrails.
> Folks
> > see that right away. But there is this
> following
> > of groupie modelers that just want to tell
> Athearn
> > how much they love everything they do,
> regardless
> > of flaws. Some are friends with the staff.
> >
> > Now if I had the know-how, I would start a
> company
> > and make 3rd party replacement handrails for
> all
> > Athearn engines. You would sell them by the
> > truckload! Any takers?
> >
> > 2. LED's. Have talked about this thousands of
> > times.
> >
> > For whatever reasons, Athearn refuses to
> address
> > these issues even though the majority of its
> > customer bases wants these changes. Lazy they
> > are.
> >
> > Bruce
>
>
> Bruce, let me add #3 - METAL couplers, not those
> weak-springed McHenry's. I know Horizon bought
> McHenry and maybe they can still use them in their
> freight cars etc to reduce costs, but for a nice
> looking locomotive with DCC and sound that has a
> street price of $200 or more I would like the $3
> couplers instead of the $0.50 couplers. I agree
> that it would be NICE if Athearn would address the
> handrails. I detest MTH as a company, but I admit
> they make some nice but sturdy handrails. Oddly
> enough I can live with bulbs if they would last
> longer. To my old eyes the lights I see coming at
> me down the track look more like Athearn bulbs
> than anybody's LEDs.
>
> Gary Binder
> Waverly, NE

Athearn now has Chris Palomarez in-house for product development, and he's a very accomplished modeler. True, he doesn't make the big money decisions.

brfriedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Like I said, Athearn folks are not Model
> Railroaders who operate which is why they just do
> not care even though the customer base wants
> change.
>

Bruce,

I think you make some good arguments, but they're undercut a bit by such unfair generalizations. I know a lot of the folks that recently left Athearn, and have known a couple of those that recently joined for many years. There are very accomplished modelers in both groups. But I doubt - without actually knowing mind you - that the handrails used, or the issue of bulbs v LEDs represents either someone at Athearn modeling preferences, or either that they don't know what they're talking about because they've never modeled.

I think I'm well known for being in the "bulb cohort." Not that LEDs can't be made convincing, but to my eye require a more complicated lens (and likely expensive) lens system to then the reflective depth bulbs do. But I also don't run any locos pretty much as they come out of the box, probably don't have as many as you, and because of the era I model, ditch lights aren't in my wheelhouse. The LED v bulb issue is interesting when considering the Athearn SP bay window cabooses, as the roof-top marker lights are grossly oversized to accommodate LEDs. And there I'd be perfectly happy with either, as long as it were closer to scale.

I also don't think it's any secret that I loathe (and that's not really a strong enough verb) Delrin handrails. It's particularly disappointing to me to see otherwise wonderfully done models spoiled by the stanchions leaning in, or some translucent color on a heavily weathered loco. I have used them twice though, on both SD45T-2s I've managed to finish (small compared to the number I haven't finished), grit-blasted and painted. But I started with undecs, and the railings sat attached to the sprues for years. Fortunately, they're still straight, but it gives me the willies when I grab one and unintentionally flex those stanchions. Mostly, I use Precision Scale (formerly PIA), brass stanchions, bend my own railings, and solder everything together. But I can assure you I hate bending handrails probably as much as you hate having to replace bulbs with LEDs. So nothing will please everyone. I don't know that making the railings 15 percent oversize will fix the problems, that value seems arbitrary. And the railings themselves wouldn't look good to my eye, even if the more oversize stanchions weren't as noticeably wrong. I've measured the Athearn stanchions, and they're dead-on scale. The brass PSC ones are admittedly a thicker cross section, which is noticeable.

So in the end Bruce, your opinions are more than justified and based on hard experience. And don't have to align with mine (how boring anyway!), I only get disturbed when you, me, or anyone else infers motive for various decisions made elsewhere, when we really shouldn't, because we don't know.

Elizabeth Allen

Hello Betsy,

Thanks for the input but I think my comments are pretty accurate. I do know that the past Athearn crew and the current Athearn crew are active modelers. That is not the challenge. It is the fact that they are not operators or have layouts. Running your stuff twice a year at the club does not qualify to me as an operator. If they operated regularly or had layouts, the burned out bulbs would of been just as distressing to them as it is to us.

The bottom line is they are not listening to their customers who desperately want them to address these junk handrails. I can live with the bulbs but they would need lenses on the sockets (which it looks like they are starting to do)and the bulbs would need to last and be bright like the prototype.

Bulbs that stick out of the headlight casings, are dim in nature and burn out quickly are not prototypical.

Thanks for your comments.

Bruce


Betsy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brfriedm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Like I said, Athearn folks are not Model
> > Railroaders who operate which is why they just
> do
> > not care even though the customer base wants
> > change.
> >
>
> Bruce,
>
> I think you make some good arguments, but they're
> undercut a bit by such unfair generalizations. I
> know a lot of the folks that recently left
> Athearn, and have known a couple of those that
> recently joined for many years. There are very
> accomplished modelers in both groups. But I doubt
> - without actually knowing mind you - that the
> handrails used, or the issue of bulbs v LEDs
> represents either someone at Athearn modeling
> preferences, or either that they don't know what
> they're talking about because they've never
> modeled.
>
> I think I'm well known for being in the "bulb
> cohort." Not that LEDs can't be made convincing,
> but to my eye require a more complicated lens (and
> likely expensive) lens system to then the
> reflective depth bulbs do. But I also don't run
> any locos pretty much as they come out of the box,
> probably don't have as many as you, and because of
> the era I model, ditch lights aren't in my
> wheelhouse. The LED v bulb issue is interesting
> when considering the Athearn SP bay window
> cabooses, as the roof-top marker lights are
> grossly oversized to accommodate LEDs. And there
> I'd be perfectly happy with either, as long as it
> were closer to scale.
>
> I also don't think it's any secret that I loathe
> (and that's not really a strong enough verb)
> Delrin handrails. It's particularly disappointing
> to me to see otherwise wonderfully done models
> spoiled by the stanchions leaning in, or some
> translucent color on a heavily weathered loco. I
> have used them twice though, on both SD45T-2s I've
> managed to finish (small compared to the number I
> haven't finished), grit-blasted and painted. But
> I started with undecs, and the railings sat
> attached to the sprues for years. Fortunately,
> they're still straight, but it gives me the
> willies when I grab one and unintentionally flex
> those stanchions. Mostly, I use Precision Scale
> (formerly PIA), brass stanchions, bend my own
> railings, and solder everything together. But I
> can assure you I hate bending handrails probably
> as much as you hate having to replace bulbs with
> LEDs. So nothing will please everyone. I don't
> know that making the railings 15 percent oversize
> will fix the problems, that value seems arbitrary.
> And the railings themselves wouldn't look good to
> my eye, even if the more oversize stanchions
> weren't as noticeably wrong. I've measured the
> Athearn stanchions, and they're dead-on scale.
> The brass PSC ones are admittedly a thicker cross
> section, which is noticeable.
>
> So in the end Bruce, your opinions are more than
> justified and based on hard experience. And don't
> have to align with mine (how boring anyway!), I
> only get disturbed when you, me, or anyone else
> infers motive for various decisions made
> elsewhere, when we really shouldn't, because we
> don't know.
>
> Elizabeth Allen

Preach on Bruce, as I agree with you. That is two things that bother me handrails and lights. Bottom line is my son and I will have 4 rather than none… Steve H.

I must have got some unusual ones. Picked up 2 NS units today and the handrails are straight as can be.