Model Railroading > 8-pin DCC to 21-pin adapter

Reading about the ScaleTrains UP 8500hp Turbine, I see the Rivet Counter version comes with a 21-pin DCC socket. I use RailLynx which uses an 8-pin connector. I am not interested in sound or converting to mainstream DCC. Is there an adapter which converts from 8-pin to 21-pin, as there is for 8-pin to 9-pin? Or is there a way to 'shade-tree' such an installation? Thanks in advance forr any insight anyone can provide.

TCS has an adapter to plug a 21 pin decoder into an 8 pin socket. You will need to go from an 8 pin decoder to a 21 pin socket, right?

If you do not want to go with sound but do want DCC I recommend a Lok Pilot ESU 53614 which is a 21 pin decoder which will drop right in. The TCS EU621 decoder with 21 pins should also work.

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Given that Rail-Lynx is an odd-ball non-DCC system it seems to me that it is up to Rail-Lynx to provide an adapter.  This is the risk you take when chosing a non-standard one-source system.

Barry Draper

If you use an 8-pin you are not getting the full potential out of the loco. 8 pin only allows the use of 3 functions. You probably need 8 functions to control everything on the engine. 

Alec

I would be curious what the 'board' that's in there right now looks like, a photo would be interesting. I'm also using Rail-Lynx and have been ripping out the OEM board and installing a Rail-Lynx board using the original mounting technique. The little clips also get tossed and everything gets soldered and then the wires get bundled somehow.

I've also picked up a few locomotives that had the Rail-Lynx board plugged into the OEM board and did not have a good experience with it, simply because of the connectors.

Should point out that the Rail-Lynx decoders are off the shelf decoders that have been re-programmed by the RL owner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/16 19:22 by TCnR.

I kind of wandered a bit in my reply and will try to get back to the problem of finding a way to connect a "reprogrammed" DCC decoder into a 21 pin locomotive.

TCS is your friend. They have a part 21-HW which is a 21 pin socket to connect with the loco mother board. On the top edge away from the socket there are 9 solder terminals which are labeled for the NMRA standard wire colors. On the bottom of this board there are 3 more unlabeled solder points. This will allow you to connect an 8 pin or 9 pin harness to a 21 pin socket. Walthers has this as 745-1358 for a package of 5.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/745-1358

TSC also offers this socket already wired to a 9 pin socket to attach to a 9 pin plug in decoder. You could cut that socket off and splice the colored wires from your 8 pin harness to the matching wires from the TCS 21 socket. The walthers number for this with 1" wires is 745-1352.

If the decoders from Rail Lynx has a 9 pin socket on the end for the harness I would remove that harness and replace if with the TCS 1352 harness. That way there would be no cutting or soldering.

There is also an ESU 51967 Adapterlokplatine which is a 21 male pin plug with 21 solder points if you want to hardwire a 21 pin decoder into a non DCC ready locomotive. This effectively becomes the motherboard you solder pick up wires, motor wires, light wires and speaker wires to. Then you plug the 21 pin decoder socket to the home built mother board plug and you are ready to go. I have yet tried this package out but I have parts at hand to try it. The outputs from the 21 pin decoders are largely a mystery though the 9 pins in the NMRA standard are numbered as are the boards.

I hope this helps. Please let us know how any of this works out for you.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/16 00:43 by fbe.

One more item. The new Rivarossi U28C models have plugs for a 21 pin decoder which has a dummy plug on it as well as 8 holes on the motherboard you can solder an 8 pin NMRA plug into. Perhaps that will be the way the turbines are delivered.

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Soundtrax has what you need and can be ordered with there decoders for additonal cost, Chech out Ulrich company as they supply complete decoders for the Standard Athearn Turbine and the Veranda ones so far might give them a call. I have both Athearn units and am installing there compete units to upgrade the lighting and sound on mine. They use the Soundtrax unit by the way complete with the required speakers. I am getting my unit with sound installed to save the hassle.
  Am installing the Eco decoders in my Proto 2000 SD9 and GP9 units using the harness from Soundtrax along with there Current Keepers the units have eight pin plugs and the decoders have the 21 pin plugs by the way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/16 07:55 by BAB.

People always will try something diffrent and by using main stream systems usually those are much easier to program and have a better customer service to deal with. That is why I am staying with Soundtrax had a question gave them a call problem solved and did not use the famous I will tell you the answer to the question I want you to ask not the one you need help on either. Boyd in Chiloquin
-------------------------------------------------------
> Given that Rail-Lynx is an odd-ball non-DCC system
> it seems to me that it is up to Rail-Lynx to
> provide an adapter.  This is the risk you take
> when chosing a non-standard one-source system.
>
> Barry Draper

A visit to the Rail-Lynx.com website makes it look like the RX-3P decoders will work with the TCS 21 pin adapters I referenced earlier.

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Thanks to all who responed to my query, particularly fbe who is a tresure trove of information and has put in some serious time to provide a solution for me. . As no one has seen the ScaleTrains board in question I have no real answer there. Perhaps the board also has an 8-pin socket as many other boards do. A query to ScaleTrains is apparently in order.
RailLynx is indeed a simple system and has fewer functions, but it has all I need: speed. direction, head and rear lights and addtional lighting outputs if desired. I have NO need for sound; if you have been in a confined space with 8-10 (or more) sound units operating simultaneously you know what I mean. To each his own and I would never presume to question anyone's desire for sound, but it's not for me.
The RailLynx instruction sheet is six pages. Compare that the with Digitrrax manul at around 100. Shawn at RailLynx is excellent for customer service and if he can't answer your question Lee Nicholas of Utah-Colorado Western fame can and will.
Again, I truly appreciate the contributions of all of you. TO is a fantastic group of people.
 

Moose,

I am glad I could help. The RX-3P decoder has the front and rear head lights off the blue, white and yellow wires. The other end of the decoder has three solder points for a blue, green and violet wires and are marked as F3 and F4. If they can be programmed like the DCC decoders they are based on you should be able to activate the clear and red oscillating lights. Since the red light is rarely used it might be a good choice to use the white oscillating light and number boards since the turbines were always in the lead.

I think any led lights will need to have resistors added unless the motherboard is set up for leds. Any lights from the decoder solder points will certainly need resistors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/16 17:56 by fbe.

The diagram of the RX-3A drop in decoder looks to be an NCE DA-SR decoder. This comes with some advantages. This would be the choice for TCnR's method of removing the model mother board and replacing that with the Rail-Lynx decoder. The DA-SR has 1K ohm resistors for lights built onto the decoder. The resistor is bypassed by a circuit trace so track voltage is applied to the lights. That is not good for led lights. So for led lighting the model the trace is cut which forces the lighting power through the resistor making it safe for led lighting.

The wires on the turbine motherboard will need to be unsoldered then resoldered to the Rail-Lynx/DA-SR decoder.

All in all it looks like Rail-Lynx users should not find locomotives with 21 pin connections any harder to convert to their system than DCC users are having.

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Let me introduce another variable into this problem.  As I've been told, the Loksound 21 pin
decoder conforms to european standards (NEM?) while SoundTraxx' 21 pin decoder is
NMRA compatible. I would imagine there would be a problem replacing one with the other.
So you would need a cross reference chart to see which NMRA pin matches the appropriate
NEM pin.  I do not know which standard TCS follows. Are we having fun yet?
Frank30

Putting an NMRA standard decoder is not a big problem for the track, motor, headlights and 2 more light functions. After that the mother board may have more connections than the decoder has outputs. Two of the European outputs are 'logic' outputs, they turn on or off but they do not provide power to that function. No NMRA decoder I know of has anything like that. So the 21 pin locomotive may have features which cannot be accessed by the NMRA decoder.

Once you find a conversion harness with 21 pins on one and 8 pins or a 9 pin socket on the other the 21 pin decoders work on common US motherboards. You get power and headlights right off and can make 2 more lights by assigning the decoder output to the green and violet wires. The 21 pin decoder likely has 2 more lights but you will have to find them on the solder tabs on the 21 pin end of your harness and solder wires to them for more lights.

So cross functionality of the two types of decoders is possible. About two years ago when I was banging my head against a brick wall trying to figure out my first 21 pin decoders and 21 pin mother boards I did post the standard pin assignments used for ESU Lok Sound and Lok Pilot decoders. It took a lot of work on European websites to dig it up. I am not sure the TCS decoders exactly follow that standard though it may be possible to reassign the function outputs like can be done on ESU decoders. I have standardized on the Lok Pilot decoders since OEM motherboards are likely to be from ESU. TCS now has their own 21 pin motherboard but I have no experience with them to understand the connections. The 3 TCS EU621 decoders I have went into Bowser Alco C-636 units with 21 pin motherboards but there is only one auxiliary light function for the beacon and the TCS decoder can provide that and one more. I don't remember the Bowser motherboard had any connection available for any other lights.

I think in another year or so it all will be more understandable. For anyone who needs to use the 21 pin decoders or motherboards it is possible. Since the NMRA is off on their new LCC system for layout controls it does not seem their DCC standards are going to catch up to the European standards. Those standards seem to be growing and given the number of locomotive manufacturers using 21 pin motherboards may become the new hobby standard. NMRA decoders can work on 21 pin motherboard with full functionality of the decoder but limiting the capabilities of the locomotive.

I am not sure I want all the bells and whistles on the sound decoders now. The way things are evolving there operators are busy changing sound functions going over the road instead of keeping an eye on their train and the track ahead. After 33 years in locomotive cabs I can tell you that is a sure way to get into trouble.

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Here is the key to what each pin on the new decoders is for. You can match these to the colored wires and functions on NMRA 8 and 9 pin decoders. Again, thanks to funnelfan for bringing a link to this to my attention.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?3,3582564,3582564#msg-3582564

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